Game & Watch Tech?

[PhantomMarth]

So, I enjoy MGW however I am not the best. But, I have found something strange/a trick about his upair that works and when it does not there is no repercussions! MGW's upair has 2 hitboxes: (sadly I dont have the frame data) one at the top of his mouth and one on his stomach. The reason for the hitbox on his stomach is to hit enemies up towards the mouth to then hit them up again! If you get on someone's shield you can short hop and if they hold their shield out you can do (max) 3 upairs against their shield and when you land with the upair MGW's stomach is on the ground and can shield poke the enemy's feet. Even if it doesn't work there is NO downside cause from there you can uptilt or smash.


Go into debug menu check out the framedata and tell me your thoughts. I call this term: Crotch-Boxing or Crouch-Boxing. If this technique is already named something please let me know ASAP.

~SBTIX (ICSUX)

 

[G13_Flux]

i wouldnt call it a tech, moreso a property. uair has a landing hitbox, and thats where the "stomach" hitbox youre talking about comes from. if youre frame perfect, you can avoid a shield grab with an up b or spot dodge. on platforms its not a bad way to pressure from below sometimes, but other than that youre better off pressuring with spaced bairs, dtilts, jabs, and DACG or DACUS. youre going to find yourself getting shield grabbed a lot if you try to rely on the landing hitboxes off things like dair, bair, and uair, although they do have their uses when applied more carefully as a mixup to your usual shield pressure tactics.

 

[Shockbound]

Up-Air's landing animation is apparently purely cosmetic. Debug mode doesn't register a hitbox for it.

It's likely a remnant of how Up-Air used to work in Melee and Brawl, since it always used to shoot out two puffs on every use of the move. The animation for Up-Air ended at the same time that the hitbox for the second puff disappeared, so there was never a landing animation for a third puff (though the second puff might appear to stay onscreen for a little bit longer). If you hit the ground in the middle of executing the move then Mr. Game & Watch would throw out another puff to guarantee that the move always appeared to throw out two puffs. This distinction is why it couldn't be L-Cancelled in Melee.

Up-Air is a pretty buggy move in PM as a result. It serves its function as a gameplay mechanic as it was intended, but the cosmetic aspect tends to be a little misleading. The way it functions can also be taken advantage of for other unintended cosmetic purposes.

In any case, Up-Air is literally the most unsafe thing you could possibly do against a shield. Once they shield the first hit they can just grab or jab. Everything that you're talking about can be done with a D-Air, which has some disjoint to keep you safe. D-Air is the only move with a landing hitbox that Mr. Game & Watch has.

 

[G13_Flux]

Up-Air's landing animation is apparently purely cosmetic. Debug mode doesn't register a hitbox for it.

It's likely a remnant of how Up-Air used to work in Melee and Brawl, since it always used to shoot out two puffs on every use of the move. The animation for Up-Air ended at the same time that the hitbox for the second puff disappeared, so there was never a landing animation for a third puff (though the second puff might appear to stay onscreen for a little bit longer). If you hit the ground in the middle of executing the move then Mr. Game & Watch would throw out another puff to guarantee that the move always appeared to throw out two puffs. This distinction is why it couldn't be L-Cancelled in Melee.

Up-Air is a pretty buggy move in PM as a result. It serves its function as a gameplay mechanic as it was intended, but the cosmetic aspect tends to be a little misleading. The way it functions can also be taken advantage of for other unintended cosmetic purposes.

In any case, Up-Air is literally the most unsafe thing you could possibly do against a shield. Once they shield the first hit they can just grab or jab. Everything that you're talking about can be done with a D-Air, which has some disjoint to keep you safe. D-Air is the only move with a landing hitbox that Mr. Game & Watch has.

there is most certainly a landing hitbox for GWs up air. it is there the very first frame he lands and disappears after that. if the opponent shields you can see the uair hit twice. the landing hit is -5 on shield, which means that you can up b and stay safe with it. for many characters, the landing hit can pressure very well when using it on platforms, coming up from below. dair is actually less safe than uair, frame data wise, if you rely on the bounce hit and dont SHFFL it near perfectly. its -6 for the landing hit. bair also has a landing hit iirc but I will double check this.

 

[felipe_9595]

Up air isnt unsafe on shield, you can do Uair -> Perfect waveland on a SH

 

[Hamman88]

A nice thing to note about up air and its landing hitbox, its you can actually platform tech chase with it, beginning the up air on one side of the platform, and lading on the other, is a nice way to cover multiple options after they tech on a platform and you're below them

 

[CaramelCenter]

If someone misses the tech on your down throw, jab reset regrab or fsmash work. Maybe up smash too, but from what I have done/seen, it's not consistent.

 

[Hamman88]

If someone misses the tech on your down throw, jab reset regrab or fsmash work. Maybe up smash too, but from what I have done/seen, it's not consistent.

Jab reset is def best option, but it does not work on every character. However for those who you can jab reset 99% of the time you can hammer them afterwords, which makes the easiest 1-2-3 combo into a hammer we have. An excellent way to use that 9 you've been storing up.

for those who dont tech but cant be jab reset, you have a few options, either a quick d-tilt at either low or high percents for a combo or a kill. you can dsmash, if they have a short tech roll distance or do anything but getup attack. a good way to end a stock. or make a read with a dacus, a scary early stock ender, but again, this generally does not work if they gettup attack, in which case sheild it, and regrab. although the chances of them teching the nexxt d-throw are significantly higher

 

[Shockbound]

Jab reset is def best option, but it does not work on every character.

Could we get a list going of all of the people that we cannot jab reset? It would be very helpful to have that on hand.

 

[Shockbound]

It turns out that this list is actually way bigger than I initially thought it would be.

I tested this on every character while they were in a face-down position after a mistech, which is the standard position one would find themself in after G&W's D-Throw. If they performed their standard getup animation after taking a jab while in this lying-down position, then this means that they fall under my definition of whether they can be jab-reset.

Spoiler: Characters that CAN be jab-reset

Wario
Mario
Bowser
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Captain Falcon
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Ice Climbers
Sheik
Link
Toon Link
Ganondorf
Lucario
Squirtle
Zero Suit Samus
Lucas
Meta Knight
Ike
Roy
Snake
Sonic

I also tested this for certain frames during the vulnerable "bounce" phase of a mistech. What I discovered was that some characters that would normally be able to be jab-reset could sometimes bounce high enough so that the jab totally misses them due to the way that these characters' hurtboxes are spread out during this bounce animation. This means that more precise timing is required in order to avoid missing them as they bounce up.

If you want to jab-reset these characters try to remember to not fall into the habit of throwing out your jab as fast as you possibly can after using D-Throw, as you will likely end up missing these particular characters. Wait just slightly longer and you will be able to jab them before they get the chance to hit the ground, forcing a standard getup as per usual.

Spoiler: Characters that require special timing in order to be jab-reset during bounce

Captain Falcon
Wolf
Fox
Link
Snake

Characters not mentioned so far can act before they hit the ground after being hit by a jab and will be put into standard landing lag upon hitting the ground. They will potentially be able to airdodge or roll out of the way of any followup you had in store for them.

I have not found a case where a jab that hits a character during their bounce animation lets them avoid being jab-reset while also being a character that can be jab reset while lying down. It seems that all characters that can always be reset while on the ground also will be reset during the bounce, provided that the jab hit actually lands of course.

Spoiler: Characters that CANNOT be jab-reset

Luigi
Peach
Zelda
Mewtwo
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Ivysaur
Charizard
Samus
Ness
Pit
Kirby
Dedede
Marth (UUUUUUGGHH WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THIS)
Olimar
R.O.B.
Mr. Game & Watch

I have not done any thorough testing of SDI on the jab hit, but I know that it can definitely play a role as to whether the jab-reset happens or not. Upward SDI during the jab might let some normally jab-resettable characters act before they hit the ground (I can only confirm that this is the case for Lucas as I have not tested SDI on anyone else), while downward SDI could force normally unresettable characters to do their normal getup (I have not tested this at all).