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From Captain to Captain

Which do you check more often?

  • /r/SSBM

  • /forums/captain-falcon.66


Results are only viewable after voting.

Astherath

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
25
Location
Miami, FL
Hi board, I'm Valor, a kinda new Falcon main looking not for help in my playstyle or on how to deal with things (because holy moly like 80% of the board is now literally this), but I am instead looking for help in answering one question:

Where did our community go?

I've only joined as a member recently, but I've been a lurker of the boards for much longer.

The amount of content we now have is so tiny compared to the amount of content we used to have, and we should be trying to change that.

The board is literally "I don't know how to deal with x" or "how do i deal with y?". And i'm not saying that's bad, but I don't see those huge 80 post threads we used to have about matchups or stages or the Falcon player mindset.

Is it because of reddit? I find it that /r/SSBM isn't a good platform solely because of the fact that it's 90% combo videos and gfycats. Nothing wrong with that, but talking about something as specific as a matchup in a sea of ganon up tilt giffies doesn't feel right.

Am I wrong and/or just a scrub? Probably.

Would I like to see a change in the board? More than anything else.

How will I go about it? With your help.

We can't make the board be as big as it was, but we sure can make it the best experience for all of us if we try.

Any whom,

Good Luck!
 

タオー

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
264
Location
San Francisco, California
3DS FC
3540-1146-8863
I've been a lurker for many years on these boards as well, and feel that much of the reason why a lot of these very narrow questions have been surfacing as opposed to more holistic analysis is due to the fact that it's very difficult to talk about a lot of these things in concrete ways. There are a number of reasons why we have seen this shift:

There has been a wonderful increase in the amount of video tutorials done by a large amount of people in the community, and I think that's great. I'd say we see a lot more useful information being published in the forms of articles not on the boards, Facebook groups, as well as streams and videos being published.

Comparatively, it's a lot more difficult to explain the minutia of Melee mechanics in the form of text; videos are more readily accessible, as it often does not require explaining every little thing to paint the picture, you can simply just show the situation and provide commentary for the less obvious mechanics.

Also, it seems like the number of high level players frequenting the boards has dropped drastically over the years. Many times on stream I hear top players state that they no longer frequent the boards, and that's a loss we kinda have to take.

We've recently seen a MASSIVE insurgence of "noobs" inspired to pick up Melee by the documentary and Melee's recent insurgence into E-Sports. For this group, there is a mountain to climb in the form of Tech Skill (which most early players are most interested), Match Ups, and Mindset, to name a few. Simply, a more informed community will ask more informed questions, and as the majority of board frequenters seem to be coming from this demographic, the analysis has grown a little weak.

Looking forward however, I would like to see integrating these other media into the boards themselves. A little over a year ago, Victra and I set out to create a barebones "Match ups" guide for people trying to get a bead on the ol' Captain. I still have a lot of my (amateurish) work saved, and would love to continue the discussion of match ups. I actually started a thread a month or so ago soliciting discussion of Match ups, and critiques of my current guides. It promptly was buried under the countless "how do I x?" threads.

With the tools we have now, creating guides like this should not be such a difficult task (compared to earlier years). Whether it's place lies on smashboards, or perhaps in a smaller setting. I was mainly working with Victra via PMing here, and invite anyone who wants to talk Falcon theory in a scientific manner (it is 20GX after all) to open the conversation. Who knows, maybe some day soon we will start a new Mecca for Falcon theory.

But we have to take ownership of it.
We have to do it.
In the spirit of Smash, it is up to us.
No Johns guys.
 

Astherath

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
25
Location
Miami, FL
I've been a lurker for many years on these boards as well, and feel that much of the reason why a lot of these very narrow questions have been surfacing as opposed to more holistic analysis is due to the fact that it's very difficult to talk about a lot of these things in concrete ways. There are a number of reasons why we have seen this shift:

There has been a wonderful increase in the amount of video tutorials done by a large amount of people in the community, and I think that's great. I'd say we see a lot more useful information being published in the forms of articles not on the boards, Facebook groups, as well as streams and videos being published.

Comparatively, it's a lot more difficult to explain the minutia of Melee mechanics in the form of text; videos are more readily accessible, as it often does not require explaining every little thing to paint the picture, you can simply just show the situation and provide commentary for the less obvious mechanics.

Also, it seems like the number of high level players frequenting the boards has dropped drastically over the years. Many times on stream I hear top players state that they no longer frequent the boards, and that's a loss we kinda have to take.

We've recently seen a MASSIVE insurgence of "noobs" inspired to pick up Melee by the documentary and Melee's recent insurgence into E-Sports. For this group, there is a mountain to climb in the form of Tech Skill (which most early players are most interested), Match Ups, and Mindset, to name a few. Simply, a more informed community will ask more informed questions, and as the majority of board frequenters seem to be coming from this demographic, the analysis has grown a little weak.

Looking forward however, I would like to see integrating these other media into the boards themselves. A little over a year ago, Victra and I set out to create a barebones "Match ups" guide for people trying to get a bead on the ol' Captain. I still have a lot of my (amateurish) work saved, and would love to continue the discussion of match ups. I actually started a thread a month or so ago soliciting discussion of Match ups, and critiques of my current guides. It promptly was buried under the countless "how do I x?" threads.

With the tools we have now, creating guides like this should not be such a difficult task (compared to earlier years). Whether it's place lies on smashboards, or perhaps in a smaller setting. I was mainly working with Victra via PMing here, and invite anyone who wants to talk Falcon theory in a scientific manner (it is 20GX after all) to open the conversation. Who knows, maybe some day soon we will start a new Mecca for Falcon theory.

But we have to take ownership of it.
We have to do it.
In the spirit of Smash, it is up to us.
No Johns guys.
Amazing.

I never thought about the fact that the documentary had anything to do with it, but now it all makes sense.

I think that 2 things should be done for making this change, but we would need incredibly high cooperation of the mods of the board, and I don't think they would make such a big change just for a handful of people who aren't focused on "how do I L-cancel knee on shield???".

The two things are:

1. Make a thread that acts like a sub-board that is ONLY for questions like "how do i x" or "how to deal with y".

I got this idea off of reddit, and it works really, really well.

It not only clears up all of the really low quality posts that can be answered in a single sentence, but it also creates a place where people who haven't been playing the game for like 7+ years can go and talk freely with each other.

There could be a new thread every week and we would all collectively try to help out the newer players.

Why would the people follow our thread? Well, that's where the mods come in; we would not only need to sticky the thread every week, but we would have to remove that type of content from outside the thread to enforce it.

And,

2. Make a push for a retake of Smashboards.

Smashboards is something that literally made our community the way it is. It shaped our game, and more than that, it shaped our players.

The top players value one thing above all else: The people.

With a collective push as a community, we could get the top players back into it.

Something so small as just even a tweet or a facebook post telling whoever to please look at a thread, or to please post something.

Things like sub goals/donation incentives are made to please the people so if the streamers see that we obviously want to see their content more often, then they'll listen to what the people want.

Do you know how much influence we have over things? I'll give you an example:

Everyone wanted CLG to sponsor PewFat, the doubles team composed of PewPewU And SFAT. After thousands and thousands of tweets, guess what? It happened.

If instead of pushing for sponsors, which, don't get me wrong, is extremely important, we could push our content creators and our players and technicians to pick up the forum and post some incredibly insightful posts about things like "how has the meta evolved and how it affects you" or "Is coaching fair?" then I know for a fact we would bounce back to using this as our main form of communication.

Think about the posts that PPMD has made over the years, imagine him or armada writing something like that in this year, when their views have changed so drastically.

~

To recap, we need a BIG change of the style of the board, we need some incredibly dedicated and open minded mods,, and above all, we need the help and support of the people!

Good luck!
 

adPEXtwinDoNG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
58
Location
Oregon
The size of the community at this point has grown past the traditional linear forum style discussion. This isn't a bad thing.

Reddit simply offers a really great way for anyone/everyone to jump into a thread and have a discussion with multiple people at a time about a single topic. Facebook has great integration for videos and semi linear threads. The downside to Reddit however is how temporary threads are. FB has the same problem. This is something we should leverage.

If we want the board to have more activity we need to utilize the current organization, reboot the Falcon index thread and create a place for "how to x, deal w/ y" discussion (Like what Astherath suggested that is also indexed as well). A single simple guide to the board and these resources would solve this.

Maintenance and organization is why /r/ssbm is such a successful community. Popular/Quality threads are naturally promoted, cultivated and managed by upvotes. Quality discussion within the daily discussion threads can be bookmarked by a weekly wrapup thread bot that posts a weekly wrapup thread at the end of the week.
I like the index thread so far but I think we can utilize a more distributed effort to maintain it.
We'll of course need a designated index maintainer (maybe multiple mods could help edit the index) but I think the searching/linking of content should be up to everyone. The thread should consist of the index post and then discussion/linking of quality posts and then recap posts (organized links of everything new since the last recap) to help the maintainers.

In general if we find relevant content offsite we should try our best to immediately link/mirror/replicate it and or convince content creators to post their content to here first.

We as a whole should be more active too. Post alerts are great for this. Questions should not go unanswered (at the very least they should be redirected to preexisting resources or asked to elaborate more). Videos should not go uncritiqued too. Every new poster is another potential mind who can and will contribute to the Falcon Zeitgeist if given the right nurturing.
 

タオー

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
264
Location
San Francisco, California
3DS FC
3540-1146-8863
I think that what we should focus on doing, instead of opting back to the old index thread format (love it for what it is, but it's a bit of a mess), we should see how we can more clearly communicate the idea's the index thread shares, but in a more easily digestible format, and backed up by science (tangible data). I have wanted to create a "Beginners Guide to Falcon" thread, to cover everything from basic Falcon knowledge to MU's and the deeper minutia near the end, hopefully concluding by pointing readers to more comprehensive articles discussing things like Microspacing, Zoning, Pressure and other high level concepts of the game. I see it formatted something along these lines:

  1. Intro to Falcon:
    Explain Falcon's game, define his objectives, and explain his limitations by SHOWING (frame data, gifs, DATA DATA DATA) just how far he can push them. This section is where we can explain why Falcon is played more or less the way he has been played. This is where the basics of utilizing Falcon's movement should be hashed out, and why the combination of his speed, range and punishing power make him more than a contender. Finish with a link to the "How do I Tech Skill?" thread, which we might be able to head off by simply laying out the steps to executing some of Falcon's BnB tech and have links to specific tech for easy reference. (This section should not be focused on any other character than Falcon; it's intent is for the reader to develop an intimate understanding of Falcon's options)

  2. Match Ups:
    In this section, we return back to the objectives we covered in the intro and reassess them in context to each character, as well as each character's objective against Falcon. This will form the beginning of each Match Up guide. From there, we go into specific frame data for both characters and show which situations that Falcon wins in, and lay down a barebones strategy for dealing with each character. The way I had organized this in the past is first laying out both characters options in the neutral. Then explaining options for offense, defense, recovery and finally combos with %'s and DI.

  3. Growing with Falcon:
    I don't want to include too much in a Beginners guide, but I feel like those first two elements need to be covered to get started with Falcon. The last part I want to include is a brief overview of the higher level concepts (Spacing, Controlling Space, Pressure, Zoning, etc.) in context to Falcon, with links to general mental game guides that cover a number of the more minute aspects of the game, coupled with a number of other resources for proper practice.
While it won't be everything that it could be, I think there is a ton of work to be done just on this project even in it's truncated format.

P.S. With the holiday's coming up I won't be on the boards as often, but afterwards I intend to jump right into this project, and welcome others to take the initiative to start writing or collecting resources to link for this project.
 
Last edited:

Myst0

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
65
Location
Utah
Well said guys! really interesting stuff! maybe we should start cleaning up our board. Also if you guys are unaware S2J is making a falcon guide so I think that would be a great start to cleaning the board!
 

Astherath

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
25
Location
Miami, FL
Now, my question is: how do we start?

I have all these ideas and more than that, I have a whole lot of motivation and free time. (and as a board I think all of us could contribute). But how?

Has a big change/cleanup ever been done before? I don't recall seeing one in my time, but maybe one happened before me.
 

タオー

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
264
Location
San Francisco, California
3DS FC
3540-1146-8863
That... Is a good question. I think one of the things we can work on is to try to make a comprehensive guide to be stickied on the board. While we will keep getting all these useless threads, the best way to do away with them outside of having admin rights and cleaning up the board is to provide answers in a digestible format.
 

Myst0

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
65
Location
Utah
How can one obtain mod? Because I think rather than having a mod cleanup what we ask him I think it would be easier to have someone who is in charge of cleanup be a mod....
 

Myst0

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
65
Location
Utah
Well RIP... well if we were to cleanup the boards what do you guys have in mind? I was thinking getting rid of a lot of the stickies.
 

Astherath

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
25
Location
Miami, FL
Haven't seen/heard of Victra in a loooooong time. Don't know if he's still a mod.
It would be really helpful if he is, but what's our backup plan in the case that he isn't anymore/he's not planning on being active? Just pray?

And as for the guide that could get stickied, i'm totally up for it but it'll be a LOT of work. Maybe we could rally up a team of really active/dedicated people to work on it in a google doc or something.

Either way this sounds like a lot of work for something that has a chance to work...
 

タオー

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
264
Location
San Francisco, California
3DS FC
3540-1146-8863
I don't see this being out of our reach, I can hit up Victra on FB, we're friends on there. Also, I've already started on a lot of match up research, and have a ton of notes to contribute. I think a google doc would be good for us to submit our data for review. If we can get a team to work on this we can do this right, with .gif's, photos, and personality. I'm also in the process of building a beast of a CPU, so maybe somewhere down the line I could try my hand at some video production. I do intend to start streaming once I get it setup, if not only to talk theory and discuss 20GX technology, but to mainly cover proper practice, mentality and consequently, mind games.

Just talking about all this is getting me hyped.
 

Astherath

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
25
Location
Miami, FL
Just talking about all this is getting me hyped.
Same.

If you can get in contact with Victra that would be great, but where are the other mods, and what's their opinion on all this?

I've been writing notes for matchups and tech for a long time before I even started posting here (like a lot of people) so I think the guide should be pretty easy to do, just kinda hard to put together.

With the 20XX modpack and all of the frames being available already, I don't think gifs are going to be hard to find/make. We just have to start now.

HypeBoiz
 

タオー

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
264
Location
San Francisco, California
3DS FC
3540-1146-8863
Agreed. As I said before, since the holidays are coming up I will not be as available as I would like to be on this, but after the fact I'll be putting my best foot forward. Just messaged Victra, turns out it's his birthday today! I hope that's a sign of providence. As far as my knowledge of who is still a mod on the Falcon boards? I have no clue.
 
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