Frame perfect taunt canceling?!

[Luk]

This is likely not specific to Sonic, but he's where I discovered it and being a Sonic main, this is my home!

I've developed a stupid/fun/annoying habit of side-taunt canceling against ledges after taking a stock (usually only against bots when practicing because it's something to do). Anyway, I noticed that sometimes if I taunt at the very last possible second, even the audio "you're too slow" doesn't come out. It seems like if you taunt in the final frames of running up to the ledge, the taunt comes out but is immediately canceled, such that you stop at the very edge of the ledge but the taunt audio doesn't come out. So, 0 frames of taunting and yet the on-the-edge-stop occurs.

Not particularly useful, but noticed it and found it interesting. Wondered if anybody else had noticed this.

 

[GabPR]

If the taunt does not come out, the moves serves no porpuse.

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

If the taunt does not come out, the moves serves no porpuse.

^^

 

[TKDbeast]

Ledge canceling taunts is well known to exist in PM.

 

[Luk]

Nevermind, I was being dumb. I figured out (somewhat) what was happening. If you run at top speed and then put the stick into neutral, you slide a little bit, right? However, if you put the stick back to neutral at the last second before getting to the ledge, you stop instantly exactly at the ledge.

Now for the part I don't get. If at the exact moment I stop, I throw out a taunt, the audio doesn't come out. Hit taunt a frame before, it all comes out like a standard ledge-canceled taunt. Hit the taunt a frame too late and Sonic has already stopped at the ledge so he just does his taunt like usual.

If I could record video of my controller + the screen it might make it clearer what I'm talking about. Maybe I'll try'n rig something up at some point.

 

[Duplighost]

Nevermind, I was being dumb. I figured out (somewhat) what was happening. If you run at top speed and then put the stick into neutral, you slide a little bit, right? However, if you put the stick back to neutral at the last second before getting to the ledge, you stop instantly exactly at the ledge.

Now for the part I don't get. If at the exact moment I stop, I throw out a taunt, the audio doesn't come out. Hit taunt a frame before, it all comes out like a standard ledge-canceled taunt. Hit the taunt a frame too late and Sonic has already stopped at the ledge so he just does his taunt like usual.

If I could record video of my controller + the screen it might make it clearer what I'm talking about. Maybe I'll try'n rig something up at some point.

Definitely make a video.
What purpose, though, would this serve in battle?

 

[Luk]

If the taunt does not come out, the moves serves no porpuse.

I didn't realize that putting the stick back to neutral at the last second would stop you at the edge without that screech-to-a-hault animation. The only conceivable use I was thinking of was if you wanted to get to the very edge of the stage as quickly as possible and execute an immediate attack.

 

[GabPR]

Its worth to sacrifice 1 or 2 frames for an attack to come out later for a psychological attack on a players pride.

 

[Luk]

Its worth to sacrifice 1 or 2 frames for an attack to come out later for a psychological attack on a players pride.

So, while checking this out, it occurred to me, maybe I've been misunderstanding taunt canceling. Is it currently believed that the only reason for using it is psychological?

Putting together a video now, but the answer to ^ will change what I show in it.

 

[Luk]

Ok. Was gonna include text in the video but I suck at video editing and can't be bothered.

Four instances of running up to the very edge of the stage and attacking as quickly as possible.

clip 1: Worst possible thing due to the end of the dash having an animation that keeps us from attacking immediately (and likely didn't actually take us all the way to the edge of the stage)
clip 2: Using the taunt cancel to get to the tip of the stage and killing the end of dash animation
clip 3: Say your friends are getting pissed at constantly hearing "you're too slow" and you're feeling generous. An alternative to taunt canceling is, apparently, to release the control stick at the very edge of the stage. I think what's happening here is that the end-of-dash animation is actually playing, but since you then immediately slide into the edge, it cancels into the teeter animation. Essentially it's like taunt canceling, except instead of it being the taunt animation that's being canceled, it's the end-of-dash-slide animation being canceled.
clip 4: This is what first led me to check this all out. In this I'm running up to the ledge, letting go of the control stick AND taunting all at the very last possible second. This has the exact same effect as in clip 3, which is odd, you'd think that by taunting, you'd get the effect of clip 2. Hitting taunt 1 frame earlier yields clip 2. Hitting taunt 1 frame later yields.... ****, forgot to record that. Basically it just looks like you run up to the ledge, stop at the very edge, and then taunt immediately.

Clips 2/3 have practical value due to them being the most efficient way to get to the very edge of the stage and get an attack out as quickly as possible (better alternatives to clip 1).

Clip 4 has no practical value, I just find it bizarre and can't think of any reason why the engine would behave that way.

Edit: grammar

Edit2: Also, sorry for the ****ty quality.

 

[Luk]

Ok, doubt anybody cares but for completeness sake, I'm 90% sure I figured out what was going on in the clip 4 scenario.

Since you can't taunt during the screech animation, but the little dust cloud that indicates that had at least started doesn't come out either, I think what happens is this:

frame 0: you're dashing full speed
frame 1: you simultaneously hit the ledge, put the control stick back to neutral, and taunt at the same time.
- Input handler notices the release of the c-stick and declares "ok, gonna do a screech animation now".
- Next, the input handler notices that you've taunted but, since the game engine says you're in a screeching animation (that hasn't started yet), you can't taunt right now (just like if you were jumping or any other uninterruptible state).
- Finally, the physics calculation stuff happens and sees that you're at the ledge and not running/walking off, puts you in the teeter animation (canceling the earlier setting 2 bullets earlier) and stops you.
frame 2: you teeter

tl;dr: by a quirk of order of input processing, the taunt animation sneaks in between the screech animation and the ledge cancel within the same frame. And no, nothing of practical value comes of this. The developer in me just finds it interesting.

Edit: formatting.

 

[Solharath]

Some notes about taunt cancelling with Sonic, something I've mentioned before in GD but, overall, isn't used. If you taunt cancel as close as possible to the edge(where Sonic will still yell his classic lines), if you input a ftilt or utilt, you'll be teleported a small distance off the edge. It's best seen with ftilt, where Sonic's fingers will literally hanging in space.

You get more distance off the edge the closer you are to the edge, and you have to input the tilt on the next frame. On my best try, I nailed at least a full finger-length off the stage. It's not a lot, but it can catch characters like Marth and Fox from sweet spotting horizontally past your range. Falcon, too.