Fox Shine Techniques Tutorial

[pyrofox13]

In this thread you can post which method you think is easier or how you learned to do a shine technique.

I learned to doubleshine like this:
1. I went to training
2. I put the speed on 1/4
3. I figured out that I have to hold the control stick down and move my finger from X to B for it to work.
4. I sped up the time until 1x and did it a couple time then.
5. I practiced it on a character who doesn't fall to the shine.

And that's how I learned to doubleshine. Note if you're also a Falco main it's easier to doubleshine with Falco than with Fox, trust me I tried.

 

[G13_Flux]

i use the y button instead of x lol. but for me, i tried this 1/4th speed at first but then realized that this could hurt me with timing. but heres what i did to waveshine:

1. practice WDing. theres no point in waveshining if u cant WD yet. just get really good at this (try to WD around the stage for lengths of time without messing up).
2. practice doing a single shine and WD out of that as quickly as possible. slowly just add more shines into the mix until u can comfortably shine > instant WD > shine > instant WD and repeat.
3. practice on someone marths weight or heavier.

the biggest thing about getting a perfect waveshine is getting the WD length the max it can be. you have to alternate between the control stick angled slightly below the horizontal (as in closer to the side b position, as this will give u the best angle for a long WD) and having it more vertical (so that u can do the shine after the WD).

For multi shines, definitely practice with falco first, then wolf, then fox. fox has the strictest timing, falco has it the most lenient, and wolf is in between. you can shine then jump then shine again, and just try to slowly get the timing where u shine closer and closer until the ground, until eventually you are canceling the jump squat and not even leaving the ground (this is the ideal multishine). theres 3 different methods i would recommend:

1.i just hit down b, then instantly hit y/x and slide right back down to b. you can keep holding down on the control stick. you are at no risk of doing a different move with this method, its just about how fast u can move ur thumb.
2.alternatively, if u use tap jump, u can avoid the whole sliding ur thumb to the jump button and what not, and just flick the control stick repeatedly. with this method u just have to be careful when u hit B, as there is a chance u could do an up b or neutral B instead.
3. a third method that i find useful is setting the L button to jump, and just hitting down b immediately after hitting L. you can keep the control stick held down (no risk of doing a different move) and just time ur button presses quick enough. the only disadvantage to this method is that sometimes the shoulder buttons' bulkiness make it hard to time the press. i often just jump and not even shine because i pressed B right when i pressed L, so it misses the B input, but this is not as risky as an up or something.

 

["Shion"]

Gentlemen, how do you tend to approach an aggressive Ness?

I find it difficult to dash shine into a wave shine, or
Anything leading INTO a wave shine, since ness is so floaty and gets pushed back too far to combo against.

 

[foxygrandpa]

has anyone else noticed that waveshining is less consistent in this? In melee I could shine people across the course 90% of the time. It seems different in this, possibly because the shine hits at a different angle. Also, has anyone else noticed that in this compared to melee its harder to combo from shine when the opponent crouch cancels?

 

["Shion"]

It could be the weight of certain characters causes them to get pushed back slightly farther than others.

But yeah, it is more difficult.

 

[SpiderMad]

In this thread you can post which method you think is easier or how you learned to do a shine technique.

I learned to doubleshine like this:
1. I went to training
2. I put the speed on 1/4
3. I figured out that I have to hold the control stick down and move my finger from X to B for it to work.
4. I sped up the time until 1x and did it a couple time then.
5. I practiced it on a character who doesn't fall to the shine.

And that's how I learned to doubleshine. Note if you're also a Falco main it's easier to doubleshine with Falco than with Fox, trust me I tried.

I have no clue how you get X to B to work for Doubleshine/Multi-shine to work. You're using your thumb going between them both? Hopefully you get active to answer eventually

 

[krazyzyko]

Gentlemen, how do you tend to approach an aggressive Ness?

I find it difficult to dash shine into a wave shine, or
Anything leading INTO a wave shine, since ness is so floaty and gets pushed back too far to combo against.

Some characters slide too far to be able to be waveshined effectively. Try to shine > WD > dash > JC grab > Up throw > Up air.

If you shine someone that slides even further then shine > SHDL > spam lasers

 

[DiZZ]

they removed waveshine infinite

 

[Juker]

Quick question: nair to shine is completely safe on shield, as in the opponent can't react between the two. Is it actually the same for dair? Also,are there any follow-ups that are completely safe? If you follow the shine with a shffled nair, that is no longer safe, right? I think I remember reading that there a few frames between that the opponent could get off certain moves, such as a jab or even a grab, even when done perfectly. Just curious about shield pressure and safety. I see videos of people doing shffled nairs to shines repeated, and the opponent doesn't seem to be able to respond without getting hit, but I'm fairly certain that they actually can get moves off if timed correctly. Basically, is the only thing that is truly safe a nair or dair -> shine -> end, and that's it? Is a perfectly shffled nair to grab unsafe? It seems to have at least a few frames, but not sure.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Quick question: nair to shine is completely safe on shield, as in the opponent can't react between the two. Is it actually the same for dair? Also,are there any follow-ups that are completely safe? If you follow the shine with a shffled nair, that is no longer safe, right? I think I remember reading that there a few frames between that the opponent could get off certain moves, such as a jab or even a grab, even when done perfectly. Just curious about shield pressure and safety. I see videos of people doing shffled nairs to shines repeated, and the opponent doesn't seem to be able to respond without getting hit, but I'm fairly certain that they actually can get moves off if timed correctly. Basically, is the only thing that is truly safe a nair or dair -> shine -> end, and that's it? Is a perfectly shffled nair to grab unsafe? It seems to have at least a few frames, but not sure.

dair into shine works safely most of the time. I've had people counter in project m though it might be different now that shields are closer to melee's. People can get moves through nair shines, but they usually end up trading. When fox is doing this to shield, it is nearly impossible to deal with, which is one of the reason's fox is so powerful in the neutral game. If he catches you in unfavorable conditions like that, you will most likely get punished really hard. The most safe option, is shine into jump cancelled grab. P

 

[Nemiak temp]

Nair shine on shield is safe in the sense that your opponent can't do anything until after the shine. If you just nair shine their shield however they can simply wait for the shine then grab you out of shield. You can double shine to prevent this or just shine grab. Fox can get away with some rediculous **** on shield but keep in mind its not always a good idea to just go ape**** on their shield as eventually they'll roll away while you are still drill/nair shining in place like an idiot. Try to keep your shield pressure in controlled bursts so that you can react to a roll and punish or to keep sure that you don't mess up your fast falls or l-cancels and get grabbed right out of it. Try to develop a *plan* when applying shield pressure. Its not used to just hurt their shield, try to use it to force a punishable reaction

 

[Juker]

Nair shine on shield is safe in the sense that your opponent can't do anything until after the shine. If you just nair shine their shield however they can simply wait for the shine then grab you out of shield. You can double shine to prevent this or just shine grab. Fox can get away with some rediculous **** on shield but keep in mind its not always a good idea to just go ape**** on their shield as eventually they'll roll away while you are still drill/nair shining in place like an idiot. Try to keep your shield pressure in controlled bursts so that you can react to a roll and punish or to keep sure that you don't mess up your fast falls or l-cancels and get grabbed right out of it. Try to develop a *plan* when applying shield pressure. Its not used to just hurt their shield, try to use it to force a punishable reaction

Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. Just to clarify, you can be grabbed after the shine if you try to do another shffled nair? It seems as though there is time, although that it is very small and somewhat hard for the other person to time the grab; maybe only a few frames.
Speaking of shine jc grabs, does it seem like the timing is different than a regular JCed grab, say out of a dash? It seems to me that you can pretty much press y+z at the same time out of a dash to get the JC grab, but when out of a shine, you have to press y earlier than z. Maybe it's in my head, but I swear when I try to time them at the same time, I mess up my shine jc grab.

 

[Nemiak temp]

Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. Just to clarify, you can be grabbed after the shine if you try to do another shffled nair? It seems as though there is time, although that it is very small and somewhat hard for the other person to time the grab; maybe only a few frames.
Speaking of shine jc grabs, does it seem like the timing is different than a regular JCed grab, say out of a dash? It seems to me that you can pretty much press y+z at the same time out of a dash to get the JC grab, but when out of a shine, you have to press y earlier than z. Maybe it's in my head, but I swear when I try to time them at the same time, I mess up my shine jc grab.

Use tap jump for shine grabs. Down-B > UP > Z easier that using Y.

 

[Bantler]

I have no clue how you get X to B to work for Doubleshine/Multi-shine to work. You're using your thumb going between them both? Hopefully you get active to answer eventually

I actually do this just for multi-shining. You hold down on the control stick, shine, and then slide your finger from x to b, pick your finger up and slide from x to b again. Other than that I use y for any other tech skills.

 

[SpiderMad]

I actually do this just for multi-shining. You hold down on the control stick, shine, and then slide your finger from x to b, pick your finger up and slide from x to b again. Other than that I use y for any other tech skills.

Can you record your hands doing it? Are you hitting A in the process?

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Hey guys, I'm having a weird difficulty with getting wave shining down perfectly. I can wave dash out of a raw shine easily enough (I still need to work on being more consistent with WDs with Fox however), but anytime that I do so after hitting the opponent, I never get the jump to register (and thus don't get the air dodge downward for the wave dash) even though nothing changes between how I do it in both situations.

Is there a timing to it when the shine confirms on someone or is there something else I'm missing? Interestingly (sadly) enough, a few casual sets I had with my brother last night made me look godlike since I could follow up my shines and this was with only a few weeks of Fox play under my belt. Then I find out input assist was on and I just deflated. :/

 

[SpiderMad]

Yeah when you hit someone you both go into hitlag (and the opponent can SDI during this time). There's a lot of ways to practice stuff, you could waveshine a wall at shadow moses, or set the dmg ratio on .5 and practice on bowser