xRisingForce
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2007
- Messages
- 46
Hey everyone, I'm a newcomer to Smash Boards but certainly not new to Smash. I know there are multitudes of people out there more experienced with Marth than me, so I thought this would be a good place to seek some gameplay advice.
Basically my problem is I have this friend I met this college term who, up until last night, I thought mained Peach. His approach to the game is like Azen's, meaning he likes to play every character, but I'd always three-stock him regardless of character choice because of mindgames, like being able to tech chase the hell outta him and constantly luring him into high recovery f. smashes so I could spot dodge and punish him with grabs and ultimately, combos. But last night, he beat me by a one stock margin twice consecutively, and it's been the first time he's ever taken me out for reasons other than a fluke because of a mess up on my part.
But as Fox, his attack patterns are annoyingly sporadic. On a side note, there's a Falco in my dorm hall that either constantly spot dodges arbitrarily or constantly rolls arbitrarily anywhere from one to like, 57 times when I move in, and I find it really hard to judge the lag frames of spot dodges to move in for grabs or some other quick attacks. If I wavedash away, he just lasers me, so basically my only strategy against him is to attack him during the very limited amount of lag frames following the spot dodges so I can tech chase him into a combo, or just combo him into the 80% range or so to finish him off with a tipper or spike (since we play on FD exclusively). I mean I'll get better at manipulating lag frames with experience, but there has to be some other effective strategy.
For the Fox friend, I can NOT predict this guy. Every pro smasher has some sort of strategy or respective playstyle, and I think you can generally differentiate a scrub from a pro when you see someone clearly playing without thinking, mindgames, reading the opponent, etc. Really, the only way to use "randomness" effectively is to be strategically random, but that's contradictory to an extent.. Anyways, I'll outline some of the general problems below.
1. Unreadable Attack Patterns
- He does this thing where he jumps (not short hops) towards me and either goes into a n. air or a d. air, and I'll almost always spot dodge it, and move in to punish him with a grab during his recovery frames, but somehow he consistently beats me to the chase! He doesn't L-cancel, and I can testify to this because there is no difference in recovery time nor can I hear a trigger or z click. Marth's grabs are supposed to be king, what the hell is up with that?
2. Shield Spam
- This sounds really stupid, because everyone knows the simple antithesis to shield or counter spamming is effectively grabbing, but it messes up the flow of my game, and I'm not really sure how to react. I was tired as hell last night, and I noticed this now because after playing an opponent a couple of times I can read them and adjust some elements of my game accordingly, but every match up last night I did the same **** against/I] the same **** over and over and over. So, am I just sucking and in theory I can merely just grab the hell out of him, or can anyone understand what I'm saying about shielding interrupting the flow of combos because the attacker experiences slideback, at least in Marth's case with his f. smash into a shield?
If Mew2King visits this thread (which I can't believe he'd be reading this anyway, because he's up there within the ranks of most experienced smashers), or someone as knowledgeable, are Fox's recovery frames of unshielding less than Marth's landing frames, because he always gets the first strike on me after blocking an l-cancelled f. air or an f. air that finishes its attack animation in the air so I can and neutrally.
3. Shine Spike/Strange Edge Guarding
- I use a mindgame here; purposely overshoot in coming back to the ledge so he thinks I suck and usually comes in for an n. air or a shine, and consequently, I always counter, but whenever he comes in with a shine spike (when I'm below the ledge of FD), my recovery time is so bad I'm like three pixels beneath sweet spotting when I Dolphin Slash. I think a decent strategy would be to f. air or u. air when he comes in for the Shine Spike, and hit rates aren't anything I'm concerned about here, but I've yet to implement it and the recovery frames could be just as (if not worse) the Counter.
4. U. Throw + U. Air Combo
- I used to play exclusively offensively (even when I was in the air) but lately I'm starting to think this is generally a terrible idea. Marth's d. air isn't adequate enough to defend himself against Fox's u. air, plus I think without perfect timing down to the frame, Fox's u. air would get priority. I saw this question on some another Marth thread, and someone suggested to smash the directional stick left and right right before Fox moved into his u. air from the u. throw, but this strategy prevents the Marth from being subject to the second kick in Fox's u. air combo. This implies that if the Marth messes up, he's dead meat (if his % is high enough), but I don't even want to compromise the situation such that my anti-Fox-u.air strategy has an inclusion of me having to take some small damage (the initial u. air) to compromise larger damage and, essentially, knockback. Someone else suggested D.I.ing correctly out of the initial u. throw, but even if Fox had to run to position himself for the u. air, the lag frames following Fox's u. throw + frames spent running is still less than however many recovery frames Marth has in the air before he can utilize his second jump. You can see it here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCp6TLzx8w0, I'm pretty sure the Marth D.I.ed out of the u. throw at 0:34, but he still got wasted. Any helpful tips? If I get caught in this attack that's a good 30% or if I'm high enough, death.
5. Against My Falco Friend, Sporadic Dodging
- I can tip the hell out of this guy, and once I get him caught in a combo he's as good as dead, just like my Fox friend, but the problem is actually getting him caught in a combo, because a combo implies that I have to initially hit him.
Basically my problem is I have this friend I met this college term who, up until last night, I thought mained Peach. His approach to the game is like Azen's, meaning he likes to play every character, but I'd always three-stock him regardless of character choice because of mindgames, like being able to tech chase the hell outta him and constantly luring him into high recovery f. smashes so I could spot dodge and punish him with grabs and ultimately, combos. But last night, he beat me by a one stock margin twice consecutively, and it's been the first time he's ever taken me out for reasons other than a fluke because of a mess up on my part.
But as Fox, his attack patterns are annoyingly sporadic. On a side note, there's a Falco in my dorm hall that either constantly spot dodges arbitrarily or constantly rolls arbitrarily anywhere from one to like, 57 times when I move in, and I find it really hard to judge the lag frames of spot dodges to move in for grabs or some other quick attacks. If I wavedash away, he just lasers me, so basically my only strategy against him is to attack him during the very limited amount of lag frames following the spot dodges so I can tech chase him into a combo, or just combo him into the 80% range or so to finish him off with a tipper or spike (since we play on FD exclusively). I mean I'll get better at manipulating lag frames with experience, but there has to be some other effective strategy.
For the Fox friend, I can NOT predict this guy. Every pro smasher has some sort of strategy or respective playstyle, and I think you can generally differentiate a scrub from a pro when you see someone clearly playing without thinking, mindgames, reading the opponent, etc. Really, the only way to use "randomness" effectively is to be strategically random, but that's contradictory to an extent.. Anyways, I'll outline some of the general problems below.
1. Unreadable Attack Patterns
- He does this thing where he jumps (not short hops) towards me and either goes into a n. air or a d. air, and I'll almost always spot dodge it, and move in to punish him with a grab during his recovery frames, but somehow he consistently beats me to the chase! He doesn't L-cancel, and I can testify to this because there is no difference in recovery time nor can I hear a trigger or z click. Marth's grabs are supposed to be king, what the hell is up with that?
2. Shield Spam
- This sounds really stupid, because everyone knows the simple antithesis to shield or counter spamming is effectively grabbing, but it messes up the flow of my game, and I'm not really sure how to react. I was tired as hell last night, and I noticed this now because after playing an opponent a couple of times I can read them and adjust some elements of my game accordingly, but every match up last night I did the same **** against/I] the same **** over and over and over. So, am I just sucking and in theory I can merely just grab the hell out of him, or can anyone understand what I'm saying about shielding interrupting the flow of combos because the attacker experiences slideback, at least in Marth's case with his f. smash into a shield?
If Mew2King visits this thread (which I can't believe he'd be reading this anyway, because he's up there within the ranks of most experienced smashers), or someone as knowledgeable, are Fox's recovery frames of unshielding less than Marth's landing frames, because he always gets the first strike on me after blocking an l-cancelled f. air or an f. air that finishes its attack animation in the air so I can and neutrally.
3. Shine Spike/Strange Edge Guarding
- I use a mindgame here; purposely overshoot in coming back to the ledge so he thinks I suck and usually comes in for an n. air or a shine, and consequently, I always counter, but whenever he comes in with a shine spike (when I'm below the ledge of FD), my recovery time is so bad I'm like three pixels beneath sweet spotting when I Dolphin Slash. I think a decent strategy would be to f. air or u. air when he comes in for the Shine Spike, and hit rates aren't anything I'm concerned about here, but I've yet to implement it and the recovery frames could be just as (if not worse) the Counter.
4. U. Throw + U. Air Combo
- I used to play exclusively offensively (even when I was in the air) but lately I'm starting to think this is generally a terrible idea. Marth's d. air isn't adequate enough to defend himself against Fox's u. air, plus I think without perfect timing down to the frame, Fox's u. air would get priority. I saw this question on some another Marth thread, and someone suggested to smash the directional stick left and right right before Fox moved into his u. air from the u. throw, but this strategy prevents the Marth from being subject to the second kick in Fox's u. air combo. This implies that if the Marth messes up, he's dead meat (if his % is high enough), but I don't even want to compromise the situation such that my anti-Fox-u.air strategy has an inclusion of me having to take some small damage (the initial u. air) to compromise larger damage and, essentially, knockback. Someone else suggested D.I.ing correctly out of the initial u. throw, but even if Fox had to run to position himself for the u. air, the lag frames following Fox's u. throw + frames spent running is still less than however many recovery frames Marth has in the air before he can utilize his second jump. You can see it here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCp6TLzx8w0, I'm pretty sure the Marth D.I.ed out of the u. throw at 0:34, but he still got wasted. Any helpful tips? If I get caught in this attack that's a good 30% or if I'm high enough, death.
5. Against My Falco Friend, Sporadic Dodging
- I can tip the hell out of this guy, and once I get him caught in a combo he's as good as dead, just like my Fox friend, but the problem is actually getting him caught in a combo, because a combo implies that I have to initially hit him.
Regarding the u. throw + u. air combo, does it matter where I aim my D.I.? Running backwards isn't any different from running forwards to position himself for a nasty u. air.
