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Fox online practice - detrimental?

DKGrayson

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
72
Location
England
NNID
tauelf
Good afternoon chaps and chapesses,

I'm not 100% if that has been posted before or not, however I searched the forums and can't see anything to this effect.

My question is regarding fox and playing on the ladder with him.

The input lag is really noticeable (100MB internet connection), even though it's VERY slight. It does require some adjustment to play online, and after a few games, I become accustomed to it.

I do play against pals and stuff mostly, which is offline play with no lag (or the generic 7 frame lag whatever).

Will playing online and offline confuse my muscle memory, combo ability, general movement and the like? Or is the experience gained by playing online a good trade off with the confusion between playstyles?

Recently online I've been playing secondaries and pockets like DK and Ganon because it's much easier to plod about and read the game with a heavy.
 

zzmorg82

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
109
Location
The Air
NNID
zzmorg82
Switch FC
2476 2506 3411
Input lag and muscle memory seem like a temporary thing to me. As long as you continue to play offline and not get too adjusted to input lag to the point where you're nonchalantly expecting it; you should be fine.
 

seoh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
47
Location
SoCal
I think because smash has for so long not had online and when it has been implemented it has been very poor relative to other franchise competitive games, this community tends to totally invalidate online practice to a detrimental level.

I come from other games, notably CS, where there is a very similar difference between online and offline play because of latency. The effect obviously exists in all games, but in some it is a more magnified difference than others, like FPS and FGC games. That being said, in CS we call players who are very good online, but bad or presumed to be bad offline, "onliners." This is theoretically because their style will not work offline, that they are in some way abusing latency or other things that just won't work with the same consistency as they do online. The difference is in CS, is that for any player looking to get better, a solely LAN environment for practice would be practically impossible. You just can't have a 10 person LAN all the time, so online practice has to be used for a majority of things.

I'm relatively new to smash compared to most people. I play mostly online because my friends that got me into the game don't live near me. I choose to treat online practice differently. I know that I'm going to lose to some lag stuff or certain kinds of styles are going to work better or not as well because of lag (what people call "For Glory strats, things that work better online than offline). So instead, in offline games I work on things like thinking about the game, mentality and mix ups. Regardless if what I can execute what I want and it working doesn't matter to me as much as trying to understand my if my choices were correct. I use an idea from a CS player who basically said making the correct decision and completely missing the enemy is far better than making the incorrect decision and getting a kill. I also try to work on big picture things, like spacing and using combos intentionally at various percents, or even just having smooth movement. Of course, all of these things always apply to playing good smash, but in online you cant rely on execution or you opponent playing in a way that mimics offline play accordingly, so I never try to think about the game exactly the same, because it simply isn't. I know that in offline practice, I get much better much faster, so these are the games that I take the most holistically when trying to improve my game. However, online play has allowed me to work on my game in ways that ease the job in my offline play. My mentality going into offline games is almost never about winning but about improving, and my mentality going into online games is even less about winning. Especially when a lack of MM system comes into play, you might be playing someone way above or below you in skill.

As for the muscle memory thing, there is obviously a difference. And maybe I'm just better at adapting because I've done it for so long through so many games, but personally I don't have a problem switching between both given some time to adjust. Of course, large amounts of lag are just not worth it, but for the majority of games, it just takes me some time to adjust. I would never want to go from online practice instantly to offline tourney matches, but otherwise adjusting to it doesn't seem like it deteriorates my game. Perhaps for most people in smash, online might be frustrating or seem worthless. But I don't think it is honestly, you just can't approach it like it is offline, because it is a different form of the same game. It is obviously not as good as offline, but there are players from other games who have played predominantly online for 10 years and are still some of the best players of their games in history.


tl;dr- don't view online and offline the same. Online isn't nearly as useless as you might think if you approach it in reasonable ways.
 

FUEGO!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
240
Location
Arkansas, USA
NNID
MontyRattata
I don't have a long paragraph (but you should read the others here, they're great), however I don't believe any kind of practice is detrimental. The problem is, it is widely agreed that Fox has a rough time simply because of the reactionary playstyle he tends to have through a lot of people. That said, input lag may hinder Fox's ability to perform this way, and so I suppose it would be smart to not RELY on online play for practice, but it doesn't hurt either.
 

DKGrayson

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
72
Location
England
NNID
tauelf
Thanks guys, especially seoh seoh for putting in such a long and thought out response!

I'll stop avoiding Fox during online ladder matches now, I think the above points are valid, and the main object is that practice is practice :)
 

EnhaloTricks

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
197
Location
Texas
To me, it depends on the "style" of Fox you play. I use a lot of perfect pivots, for example, and those get destroyed with even the tiniest bit of lag (I can't even pp correctly if the TV I'm using has more than normal input lag). Because of this I have to change my style a little bit so it's not super worth it for me. However! It is really good for learning MU's and practicing certain things.

If I'm playing online I tend to use Ness, though, unless otherwise requested. He's a lot more forgiving with lag than Fox is.
 

seoh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
47
Location
SoCal
Sure thing DKGrayson DKGrayson . If anything, don't frustrate and complicate things to much. EnhaloTricks EnhaloTricks makes a good point, it sucks PP with lots of lag. Definitely support the learning match up thing. I suck vs a ton of characters because I've literally never played vs them or as them, so often times I just fight bots so that I learn how to space myself at a basic level.
 
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