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Fox advice? Video included.

Toobz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
410
Location
Apopka, FL
Here is a video of me playing Fox vs my brother's Samus. I can't say that this is my best game, but its not my worst either. Same goes for my brother. In fact I usually only win about 70% of the time against him. Any advice vs Samus, or just any advice in general would be much appreciated! Biggest weaknesses? Sllight tweaks? Whatev! Thanks!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L1gZxUrp1Sc
 

Toobz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
410
Location
Apopka, FL
Bump! Come on guys, I know I suck, but some help would be greatly appreciated. Word, yo.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I'm not one of the big Fox names, but I'll see what I can do for you.

0:04 if he's at zero damage, he's probably not going to go anywhere even if you connect with the dsmash which is rather laggy, so you'll probably end up getting punished. At lower percentages, go for a combo starter.

You missed a few L-cancels on the nairs but you got them later on... so... just a technical issue, I think.

Instead of dthrowing, try uthrowing. At that percent, you should be able to land a uair on him... it's more guaranteed than a dthrow techchase.

0:20 go for the edgehog or a shinespike quickly, otherwise you'll miss your chance.

If the Samus is going to lay Bombs like that, why not just shoot lasers at him? You're not really hitting him, just taking damage. Also, it looks like you're having trouble shorthopping? Or is that intentional?

0:44 that's not a good place to be. Ledgestalling is fine, but doing that will get you nair'd for a quick kill.

1:27 you should just continue to drillshine until the tree goes away.

You're getting crouch cancel countered a lot. Try grabbing him or running behind him and pivoting into something. You can also waveshine into a grab if you can, otherwise, learn to.

Another thing I noticed is that sometimes you anticipate that he'll do something but when he does something else, you'll go through with the counter to what you thought he would've done anyway. You might want to break that habit.

You're Firefoxing at him a lot on the recovery which generally isn't a great idea. Sweetspot it, or even into the ground if you have to.

You should always JC your grabs. Unless you're facing Jigglypuff, but that's another story.

3:56 why not fsmash instead? Or better yet, dash up to a JC usmash.

Yeah... that's about all I can see.
 

Toobz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
410
Location
Apopka, FL
Wow thats detailed! Thanks for all the advice. Yeah I do have a little trouble with shorthopping sometimes, and I can also sometimes waveshine but I don't usually think about that in the heat of battle. Again, thanks for your tips. I will try to post some more videos later on today! =D
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Errr... after you uthrow him, you should follow with a uair...

I don't think you're really being aggressive enough in our comboing... it feels like you're letting him go rather easily. Oh and when he misses a tech, run up to him and shield. If he's at a high enough percent and he uses his get-up attack, you can usmash straight out of shield (tap up and A) for the kill.

You really should consider edgehogging more and ledgestalling to refresh invincibility. It gives you a much better position to edgeguard, as you can drop into a shine or rise into a bair. Standing at the ledge is really just going to get you hit by Samus' Screw Attack, unless you're going to time a dsmash to cut through it.

Oh and at 4:04 you should angle your Firefox into the stage to cut down on the vertical distance it covers so you don't eat fsmashes like that.
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
A few simple rules when facing off against Samus:

Uthrow -> uair is impossible. The Samus can double jump out even at 0. If you hit them, they must be doing something wrong.

Samus can CC everything thats not an uair, dair, or grab. Don't Nair at low percents. Use your speed and lasers to weave in and out and space bairs.

When ledge-guarding, only two moves are truly necessary. Bair and Shine. Keep re-grabbing the edge to renew your invincibility frames, then we Samus up+bs shine her out of it. Drop down again if she tries to grapple.

Waveshines are good in this match-up. I suggest waveshine to dtilt, turn-around utilt, or just usmash. Don't grab, you can't do anything to Samus out of a grab.
 

Toobz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
410
Location
Apopka, FL
RaynEX Thanks for the advice. I was trying to do uthrow a lot but it desn't usually work out too well. That vid you showed me had a very technical fox, and I'm not quite at that level yet. I will try and work on my SHL and waveshine as those are the two most difficult things to do ATM. my waveshine is okay, but it needs to be a little more consistant. Thanks for the info, all!
 

takieddine

Smash Master
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
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Not chilindude829
RaynEx, samus can CC EVERY aerial fox has at 0 percent, yes even uair.

Like everyone said, just focus on mindgaming upsmash or drillshing into it, use upsmash instead of fsmash in most cases.

Make sure you arent over-agressive or otherwise you'll be eating upb for breakfast. The samus matchup is best played as laser camp, hit and run on big stages like dreamland and FD.

Be aggressive when trying to upair samus (not to be confused with upthrow upair), most likely you'll end up winning the hit (her dair is slow and hard to time).
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
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Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
toobz: Lol ty ty. I was the Fox in the vid. Waveshine is fundamental in advanced fox play. Master that, if anything.

Taki: No one uairs at 0. You're right about it, but I meant that you couldn't crouch cancel the uair at relevant percents...

Like anything over 20 percent. If Samus is at 0 you're looking to laser and waveshine usmash. Also spamming shine is good too. haha.

You said that she can CC everything at 0. Thats not true, she can't CC the drill. In fact, no one can. Because unless you are at 200 or something, the drill doesn't send you flying anywhere. In effect, there is no knockback to CC, and it kicks the **** out of anyone that tries too. Dair to shine to w/e is amazing on CC spammers.
 

Ace83

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
215
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Waveshines are good in this match-up. I suggest waveshine to dtilt, turn-around utilt, or just usmash. Don't grab, you can't do anything to Samus out of a grab.
i just thought about how long it would take me to master the wave-turnaround utilt with fox. haha
 

Oskurito

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,948
Location
Hell
If you get a grab you can dthrow to tech chase -use the mindgames powa- But upsmash smash out of shield is a much better option if you're on a defensive position because samus gets easily killed with that specially at stages with low ceiling. Just watch out for well spaced aerials because you can't hit her with that if she's too far away from upsmash range. Just don't throw grab moves out of the match up, they are and can be very useful on specific situations.
 

Toobz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
410
Location
Apopka, FL
Ok. So now I usmash a LOT. And it certainly helps. But drillshine was basically my bread and butter against samus until about 50-60, where I would spam bair to shine. But now he got the idea to start abusing his up B move. It works really well vs my aerials, and I'm immediately put on the defensive after I get sucked into it. What should I do? I tried to just laser him a little, but he come at me and crouch cancels all my close ranged attacks.

So, how do I best combat his up B move, and how can I get out of harms way when I'm cornered against the edge of the stage. When he crouch cancels he is like a brick wall and its hard to get passed him without leaving myself vulnerable. Thanks!
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
His up+b has invincibility frames, so if he blocks your aerials he'll try to up+b out of shield for sure. This tactic will beat your shine.

You'll eat an up+b if he blocks your aerials, so just try to hit him work AROUND his shield, not INTO it.

Coming back against Samus, don't spam ledge-hop moves. If he spams CC as much as you say, that would definetely be the wrong thing to do. Try ledge-hop illusion at his "head area" to avoid him CCing your side+b into dsmash or something.

Also, waveland on stage and buffer a roll.

Hope I helped.
 
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