Former Nintendo Marketing Specialist Sheds Light on Smash Bros. as a "Dangerous" Brand at EVO

[MrGamer419]

Heres the link for the article
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ght_on_smash_bros_as_a_dangerous_brand_at_evo

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

And now pour in the mindless sympathizers.

"EVO would have taken the character representations out of the hands of Nintendo’s control, boiled them down to pure violence, and broadcast it directly to 125,000 people." Moronic. Aren't those 125,000 people looking exactly for that? No one else is. I don't recall EVO Smash being enjoyed by an audience that's still in grade school. Is it not a violent game at the end of the day anyway? "Boiling" GTA down to a taxi driver based game wouldn't distract from the fact it's also a game where you beat up hookers.

"As that relates to EVO, the decision doesn’t really seem to make much sense and from what I’ve heard it was more a miscommunication between the parties involved." There wasn't a miscommunication; Nintendo was at the table trying to get Melee pulled altogether.

I am fully aware Nintendo has their reasons. I just don't care what they are. Nobody has the right to tell those people what to do with the games they bought. Nintendo needs to get their nose bloodied again if they didn't learn from this mistake. You don't make friends being a bully.

 

[SmashShadow]

People need to realize that most people came to play Smash because they had seen one of the characters from one of their favorite games in Smash. They obviously know the context is different and have no problem with it. Smash hasn't harmed sales for those other titles because the characters not portrayed in they same situations they have in their games. Nobody is expecting a Zelda game where link beats her up. Why even make this game at all is you're so worried about this? It's bull**** reasoning to me.

 

[Glaciacott]

Does anyone remember the marketing of Nintendo during the years this guy worked there? I do. It was some weird "Who are you?" campaign with commercials that, more often than not, were so random and cryptic that I barely knew they were for Nintendo games.

The fact that a guy whose job of promoting the Gamecube was done so poorly means that I'll take his comments with a bottle of salt.

As for his actual comments, they're bull:
- The demographic for EVO are fighting game enthusiasts, not little, innocent kids. These people will WANT to see Nintendo All-Stars fighting.
- The marketing and box-art for the original Smash Bros. was clearly aimed at ALL ages, and the cartoony style implied a desire to reach young players as well. This guy doesn't seem to realize that young kids compare their favorite characters all the time, and if you give them a chance to prove which one is the best in a fight, they'll leap at it.
- Which leads to the point of him completely missing the point of Smash Brothers, which is really a marketing dream. The series has become a walking museum for Nintendo that, due to fantastic content and gameplay, sells like few other things. The franchise is done in such a way that each character's moveset represents almost EXACTLY what you can expect from a game in that series. If you've played as Olimar and then jump over to a Pikmin game, for example, you'll know that you need to grow pikmin and throw them at stuff to function. So not only does the game represent each character fantastically cromulently, but it also gets people playing it interested in franchises they've never even heard about. I'm sure Earthbound is probably selling well only as a result of people having seen Ness in smash and wondering. Same goes for Marth leading to Fire Emblem coming out of Japan, etc etc.

As for the Wii U being unintuitive ... really? My toddler brother grabbed the gamepad and immediately knew what to do. It's arguably easier than the wiimote since to this day I have to explain to non-gamer people that for some games you hold it vertically, for others horizontally, for some you don't have to move, and so on. Problem with the Wii U, the OBVIOUS problem with the Wii U, is that people are still not convinced of the need to get a Wii U and not a Wii instead, or even of what the difference is apart from the gamepad. Which would also support why even now more people buy Wiis than Wii Us.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

He's being a tool. He worked at Nintendo for three months and probably left on bad terms. He was also a judge at Evo so he knows very well why games are played for competition. What he doesn't know why they wanted to stop the event and his theory seems very biased to try to hurt Nintendo onpurpose. I would honestly ignore him and not give him the attention he wants.

 

[Anomilus]

From a Marketing perspective, Smash is dangerous because of the content/playstyle of the game. Iconic Nintendo mascots beating the hell out of each other is an awesome gameplay experience, no one will challenge that fact, but from an overall Marketing view it’s, well, dangerous. The popular image of Mario, the widely publicly recognized one, can never be of him beating the hell out of Princess Peach or, say, of Link tossing Zelda into the fires of Brinstar, Pikachu hitting Jigglypuff with a baseball bat, so on, so forth. Unlike most other fighting game characters, the Nintendo mascots have far-reaching brands and franchises unto themselves that have to be considered and protected in a bigger picture view. EVO would have taken the character representations out of the hands of Nintendo’s control, boiled them down to pure violence, and broadcast it directly to 125,000 people. It’s not hard to see why Nintendo would be a little gun-shy.

WHY WOULD THAT BE A PROBLEM???

And don't get me wrong, I understand the "guy on girl" violence thing, but 134,000 people (he got the number wrong) knew exactly what to expect of Smash. If millions more knew exactly what Smash was about, they wouldn't care nearly as much as this guy assumes. If they had a commercial showing how topsy-turvy "Nintendo's world" has gone by having Zelda whacking Link with a Hammer or Peach slapping Mario in a silly manner or..... or Pikachu hitting Jigglypuff with a baseball bat, the public would know what to expect.


Maintain a decent image is good, but it shouldn't hold games back.

 

[FlamingForce]

I'm pretty sure the image of Mario beating Peach was realized the moment Melee got released.

 

[Ulevo]

He's essentially not giving the consumer the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they don't know the context behind what Smash is versus the context of the characters home environments. His concerns are built on a faulty, fearful premise, and that's really unfortunate.

Nintendo needs to ask themselves why their sales are not meeting expectations. Denying their loyal fan bases is one of them.

 

[nat pagle]

WHY WOULD THAT BE A PROBLEM???

And don't get me wrong, I understand the "guy on girl" violence thing, but 134,000 people (he got the number wrong) knew exactly what to expect of Smash. If millions more knew exactly what Smash was about, they wouldn't care nearly as much as this guy assumes. If they had a commercial showing how topsy-turvy "Nintendo's world" has gone by having Zelda whacking Link with a Hammer or Peach slapping Mario in a silly manner or..... or Pikachu hitting Jigglypuff with a baseball bat, the public would know what to expect.


Maintain a decent image is good, but it shouldn't hold games back.

This commercial goes against everything he stated he didn't want Smash to be. Actually, Smash itself goes against everything he wants for the Nintendo characters.

 

[Tesla_Coil]

This commercial goes against everything he stated he didn't want Smash to be. Actually, Smash itself goes against everything he wants for the Nintendo characters.

I just thought I should mention that although I disagree with his reasoning with regards to Smash and it's inclusion at Evo, he never states anything about what he wants Smash to be or not be. If you read the entire article, he was just trying to give a possible perspective on how Nintendo views the Smash series. I think we should remember that he is not at fault for the Evo decision (and even states that it was probably a miscommunication issue.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think the whole thing is silly. I mean, we have flash parodies, rule 34, fan art, etc. that puts the characters in unusual situations yet no one cries foul.

If you ask me, putting Melee at EVO IS genius for a couple of reasons. The first is that it would hype up Smash 4. The second is to show the deeper appeal of the games. The third is that it's actually a decent gauge of seeing what players want to see - free marketing research.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't really agree with him on his stance on that Nintendo characters beating each other up hurts the individual brands. If it did that, then the damage would have been done years ago, but it has done the opposite, it has introduced so many people to new franchises and given Nintendo not only a lot of cash from Smash (dat rhyme,) but also given them higher sales on other franchises due to Smash's high advertisement value. Watching Peach beat up Mario isn't gonna make anyone reconsider if they want to buy the next Mario game or not, in fact it's more likely to make them want to buy games like Super Princess Peach while also buying the next Mario game.

 

[Opossum]

Isn't his stance on it kind of contradictory to Smash Bros. in general? Only Smash-fans and fighting game fans saw it anyway, plus the crow for EVO pales in comparison to the number of people who have bought the game...

So little logic...

 

[Big-Cat]

Isn't his stance on it kind of contradictory to Smash Bros. in general? Only Smash-fans and fighting game fans saw it anyway, plus the crow for EVO pales in comparison to the number of people who have bought the game...

So little logic...

Yet that number is astronomical for a fighting game stream. My guess as to why Marvel later surpassed it that night was simply because of the leftovers from Melee.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

He worked at Nintendo for three months and probably left on bad terms.

I don't recall him being there for 3 months (a lot longer really). I checked out his LinkedIn Profile and saw that he has a section describing his personality, ugh. Why do people do that? Some features of his personality are "I am highly technically adept" and "I am a strong writer and know how to wield language." 'Strong' writers know how to use adjectives. "I am a strong writer that don't need no man*."

 

[Groose]

He's being a tool. He worked at Nintendo for three months and probably left on bad terms. He was also a judge at Evo so he knows very well why games are played for competition. What he doesn't know why they wanted to stop the event and his theory seems very biased to try to hurt Nintendo onpurpose. I would honestly ignore him and not give him the attention he wants.

Did you read the article? According to it, he worked at Nintendo for SIX YEARS

Isn't his stance on it kind of contradictory to Smash Bros. in general? Only Smash-fans and fighting game fans saw it anyway, plus the crow for EVO pales in comparison to the number of people who have bought the game...

So little logic...

We have agreement.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

Did you read the article? According to it, he worked at Nintendo for SIX YEARS


We have agreement.

Haha don't care what the article says, people stretch the truth all the time. He obviously didn't work at Nintendo for six years, did you research? Although, I did mess up and say 3 months as Quilt noted, I was reading "Production Manager". So in actuality he only worked for Nintendo for 3 years and 3 months. I was on a mobile device at the moment and trying to look up things I kind of ran past it.


Here's from his LinkedIn:

Technical Director: Nintendo Fusion Tour

US Concepts
Public Company; 51-200 employees; Marketing and Advertising industry
2003 – 2006 (3 years) United States
Nintendo Fusion Tour 2006: Headlined by Hawthorne Heights.
39 cities over 3 months. A fusion of videogames, music, and lifestyle.
Facilitated deployment and security of Nintendo's newest console, The Wii.
Oversaw and managed all tour related videogames/computers.
Oversaw and managed all tour related networks and information systems.
Facilitated/organized tournaments and encourage game play.

Nintendo Fusion Tour 2005: Headlined by Fall Out Boy.
40 cities over 3 months. A fusion of videogames, music, and lifestyle.
Facilitated deployment and security of tour consoles, including the new DS.
Oversaw and managed all tour related videogames/computers.
Oversaw and managed all tour related networks and information systems.
Facilitated/organized tournaments and encourage game play.

Nintendo Fusion Tour 2004: Headlined by Story of The Year.
37 cities over 3 months. A fusion of videogames, music, and lifestyle.
Facilitated deployment and security of tour consoles.
Oversaw and managed all tour related videogames/computers.
Oversaw and managed all tour related networks and information systems.
Facilitated/organized tournaments and encourage game play.

Nintendo Fusion Tour 2003: Headlined by Evanescence.
25 cities over 3 months. A fusion of videogames, music, and lifestyle.
Facilitated deployment and security of Nintendo consoles.
Oversaw and managed all tour related videogames/computers.
Oversaw and managed all tour related networks and information systems.
Facilitated/organized tournaments and encourage game play.
Production Manager

U.S. Concepts/Nintendo

October 2003 – December 2003 (3 months) United States
Who Are You? National Tour
- Nintendo Who Are You? National Mall Tour. 6 cities over 7 weeks.
- Oversaw and managed all aspects of pre-tour & tour production.
- Oversaw and managed all aspects of tour production; Truck, venue, power, all game and technical management.
- Coordinated with mall management to ensure tour stability and success.
- Facilitated/organized tournaments and encouraged game play.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

GIFSoup

 

[greenluigiman2]

Why do people care about this anymore? Melee was streamed at EVO. Smash will definitely be at the next EVO in some form.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

Why do people care about this anymore? Melee was streamed at EVO. Smash will definitely be at the next EVO in some form.

It's cause some guy is claiming and falsely accusing Nintendo as to why they shut it of.

 

[Anomilus]

It's cause some guy is claiming and falsely accusing Nintendo as to why they shut it of.

It's not an accusation. It's his own speculation as to why Smash being at EVO as a marketing tool may not be the best thing. Which was honestly not a well thought out assumption on this guy's part.

 

[SmashChu]

There is way more interesting stuff in that article than what the OP says. What I think is more telling is how Nintendo couldn't see the Gamecube doing poorly, how Giest wasn't good dispite Miyamoto's involvement and the fact that Nintendo doesn't care what their fans think. It tells you a lot about the company.

Does anyone remember the marketing of Nintendo during the years this guy worked there? I do. It was some weird "Who are you?" campaign with commercials that, more often than not, were so random and cryptic that I barely knew they were for Nintendo games.

The fact that a guy whose job of promoting the Gamecube was done so poorly means that I'll take his comments with a bottle of salt.

It was the Gamecube. The best marketers in the world are going to have trouble trying to market a purple lunch box with games like Luigi's Mansion, The Wind Waker, and Mario Sunshine. The Gamecube was a bad product and the marketers had to try and sell it. I'm saying this as a guy who loved his Gamecube.

As for his actual comments, they're bull:
- The demographic for EVO are fighting game enthusiasts, not little, innocent kids. These people will WANT to see Nintendo All-Stars fighting.
- The marketing and box-art for the original Smash Bros. was clearly aimed at ALL ages, and the cartoony style implied a desire to reach young players as well. This guy doesn't seem to realize that young kids compare their favorite characters all the time, and if you give them a chance to prove which one is the best in a fight, they'll leap at it.
- Which leads to the point of him completely missing the point of Smash Brothers, which is really a marketing dream. The series has become a walking museum for Nintendo that, due to fantastic content and gameplay, sells like few other things. The franchise is done in such a way that each character's moveset represents almost EXACTLY what you can expect from a game in that series. If you've played as Olimar and then jump over to a Pikmin game, for example, you'll know that you need to grow pikmin and throw them at stuff to function. So not only does the game represent each character fantastically cromulently, but it also gets people playing it interested in franchises they've never even heard about. I'm sure Earthbound is probably selling well only as a result of people having seen Ness in smash and wondering. Same goes for Marth leading to Fire Emblem coming out of Japan, etc etc.[/quote]
Your missing the point. The issue is not of what you think but how Nintendo is going t protect their brands. Those are their bread and butter and Nintendo wants to keep them in tact. I will agree with you and say that the characters fighting may not be the whole story. I wouldn't doubt it was also because Nintendo doesn't want Smash be associated with competitive fighting games. It's the same reason though. Nintendo wants to protect their brands. We probably never know why Nintendo did what they did. His guess is something as he actually dealt with Nintendo.

As for the Wii U being unintuitive ... really? My toddler brother grabbed the gamepad and immediately knew what to do. It's arguably easier than the wiimote since to this day I have to explain to non-gamer people that for some games you hold it vertically, for others horizontally, for some you don't have to move, and so on. Problem with the Wii U, the OBVIOUS problem with the Wii U, is that people are still not convinced of the need to get a Wii U and not a Wii instead, or even of what the difference is apart from the gamepad. Which would also support why even now more people buy Wiis than Wii Us.

How isn't it intuitive. It's a huge controller with a screen. You have to look away at the TV to use it. Actions on it don't work very well. For more, read this. The Wii U is failing because it's a Gamecube in Wii clothing. Nintendo has not done anything the market wanted them to to, such as advance online or have an account system. Or hack, make a NEW game. It's Iwata showing his incompetency.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Did homeboy really say that EVO displayed the characters down to pure violence? F*cking neck.

Isn't the game about the characters fighting? lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is just some guy talking about why he THINKS Nintendo did this right?

Because by iteself, its weak reasoning and shouldn't be given much attention. IF Nintendo actually did it for that reason then we have ourselves a potential problem, but so far it's just one guy's speculation right?

 

[Renji64]

People enjoying a game is dangerous now?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think the whole thing is silly. I mean, we have flash parodies, rule 34, fan art, etc. that puts the characters in unusual situations yet no one cries foul.

If you ask me, putting Melee at EVO IS genius for a couple of reasons. The first is that it would hype up Smash 4. The second is to show the deeper appeal of the games. The third is that it's actually a decent gauge of seeing what players want to see - free marketing research.

Pretty much this. I'm sick of the ******** business moves I've seen from companies lately, this is just ludicrous and hurts more than...

...WHAT THE HELL IS THE HARM OF THEM BEING AT EVO ANYWAYS?

 

[BlitznBurst]

This entire article is stupid, but the "Link hitting Zelda" part really bothered me. Even if his claims did make sense, the Zelda audience is for more mature audiences than games like Mario or Pokémon anyway - obviously not enough to be called "adult" or anything, but the Zelda games have plenty of events that can be considered far more "violent" than anything in the Smash Bros. series, if only because it's placed in a more serious context than "Link hits Zelda with a giant hammer and Zelda is sat on by Bowser and Zelda flies off in a fiery explosion."

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Melee at EVO is something that would've added HYPE to Smash 4's release if you ask me.

*The popular image of Mario, the widely publicly recognized one, can never be of him beating the hell out of Princess Peach or, say, of Link tossing Zelda into the fires of Brinstar, Pikachu hitting Jigglypuff with a baseball bat, so on, so forth. Unlike most other fighting game characters, the Nintendo mascots have far-reaching brands and franchises unto themselves that have to be considered and protected in a bigger picture view. EVO would have taken the character representations out of the hands of Nintendo’s control, boiled them down to pure violence, and broadcast it directly to 125,000 people. It’s not hard to see why Nintendo would be a little gun-shy.*

Like anyone is gonna give half a crap. I mean, how many people who would watch EVO would care about such things? As far as I know, EVO is meant for older audiences, teens and adults, both of which won't really care about such things, they know there isn't going to be a game for one of those series where the hero beats up their love interest, and it's unlikely children will ever watch EVO until they grow older. And who would these Melee fans talk to about this fighting game anyway? It's not like they're gonna go around visiting the house of random parents who have young children and tell them what Melee is like.

By his logic, someone posting a R34 fanart of Zelda could doom the series.

 

[Networker1]

OK... can we just all agree that this guy in the article is dead wrong and get over it?

/thread

 

[SmashChu]

One thing I noticed is a few people were not happy with this guys answer but forget that he is saying why he though Nintendo tried to end the EVO event. Nintendo tried to cancle it. That is fact. What he is trying to do is answer why he though Nintendo was doing it as someone who has been working for the company for a while. You all may not like the "downplaying the violance," but he's saying why he though that was Nintendo's mindset. Hope I was clear on that.

Melee at EVO is something that would've added HYPE to Smash 4's release if you ask me.

Melee is 12 years old. How are you going to hype the new game by showcasing the old one.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Melee is 12 years old. How are you going to hype the new game by showcasing the old one.

I believe it caused Smash 4 hype as many Smash fans may remember how they enjoyed the game, and help them look forward to the new one.

I've been playing Pikmin 2 close to Pikmin 3's release, it certainly helped me get hyped as well as help me pass time for Pikmin 3.

Though Melee is rather old now, if you're like me, Melee is what got me into Smash in the first place, and thanks to EVO reminding me how awesome Melee is, I've gotten something to help me pass the time for Smash 4 while at the same time still greatly looking forward to it.

 

[BaPr]

Does the Wii U have Wii Fit? This is seriously a question, because the reason most people got a Wii was because they could get exercise. Well, that's what I think, but since this is a smash community, I doubt that is everyones reason here. If Wii U wants to really boost their sales, they should make Wii U fit, or Wii fit u, or whatever they choose to call it. I haven't read the whole article, so I'm not sure if this is relevant.

 

[GaretHax]

What a hilarious load of disingenuous and unimaginative tripe, journalism has really taken a step backwards it seems.

 

[BaPr]

What a hilarious load of disingenuous and unimaginative tripe, journalism has really taken a step backwards it seems.

That is not true! It's more like a leap backwards. Just kidding, I'm not in the position to criticize something I never done.

 

[Big-Cat]

Melee is 12 years old. How are you going to hype the new game by showcasing the old one.

I think KingofPhantom said it best. It reminded people how much they enjoyed playing Smash. Not only that, but Melee at EVO showed off all sorts of possibilities for what you could do in the game, most of which your average person was not aware of. It brings about a sense of curiosity where they want to find out more of what they've been missing out on.

Does the Wii U have Wii Fit? This is seriously a question, because the reason most people got a Wii was because they could get exercise. Well, that's what I think, but since this is a smash community, I doubt that is everyones reason here. If Wii U wants to really boost their sales, they should make Wii U fit, or Wii fit u, or whatever they choose to call it. I haven't read the whole article, so I'm not sure if this is relevant.

There IS one in the works.

 

[Fixdswine]

Ya know, by that dumbass' logic, we might aswell remove every fighting , shooter game at the scene.

Actually, by that logic, F**k EVO its way too violent for all the kiddies that dont watch it!

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Seriously, I'd rather trust the word of this guy than you guys. Stop acting like you're all better marketing specialists than an actual marketing specialist.

 

[Fixdswine]

Seriously, I'd rather trust the word of this guy than you guys. Stop acting like you're all better marketing specialists than an actual marketing specialist.

Because the Marketing Specialist is talking so much logic right now.

 

[SmashChu]

I believe it caused Smash 4 hype as many Smash fans may remember how they enjoyed the game, and help them look forward to the new one.

Again, Melee is 12 years old. It showing up at a huge event doesn't help because the game has been out so long. Everyone knows it exist so it doesn't give you any marketing. It's like advertising the 3DS with the original Gameboy.

Again, the product your showing off is the new on. Were Nintendo to show off the new game at EVO, it would be different.

 

[Big-Cat]

Actually, you COULD advertise the 3DS with the original Gameboy. You're forgetting about the virtual console on the 3DS.

Now, could you do the same for Smash 4 with Melee? There are at least two ways to go about it. One would be to rerelease Melee as a WiiU VC game. The second is to use Melee's EVO appearance as a means of establishing a core audience to appeal to and that has been NIntendo's goal lately after all. To show support for the competitive community would show that Nintendo actually cares about its bigger fans.