For Pac-Man fans: What disappointed you guys in his presence in Smash4?

[CyberWolfBia]

First of all, I'm not talking about a full disappointment;.. People like me that supported him day after day here and everywhere, knows that the day he got confirmed was the best thing ever! and his presence is already something that makes everything worthy.

BUT, there's something that Sakurai is doing with our beloved mascot that bother you?... anything, can be since an animation to something bigger like an attack, or a visual thing;
-- this thread is just to all us share our criticism; after all, we're all Pac-fans, but this doesn't mean that we accept or like everything done with him, huh?..

PS: be nice with different opinions. =)

-----I'll let people post here first, and then, I'll post some of my opinions too.

 

[Zzuxon]

The fact that Namco roulette wasn't a move.
Also, the very small amount of pac man world references in his moveset.

 

[Hong]

All three third party characters were oddly given trampolines for their recovery.

Not the worst thing in the world, but I distinctly remember Pac-Man with a hang-glider before.

 

[Pacack]

Being one of the biggest Pac-Man fans here, I do have some criticisms.

- Pac-Man should've stayed in his 3D form for all attacks.
I know that Pac-Man is retro. I get that. But there was no need to make him turn into the pie for so many of his attacks. The only one that feels justifiable to me is the dash attack. And even then, it should've been this:

Instead of what they went with.

- Pac-Land over Pac-Man World?
This makes no sense to me. Pac-Land was terrible. Don't get me wrong, it was the first of its kind, but why focus on that instead of the World games? Why give him a Fire Hydrant?? Why make his Wii U stage the game that is renowned for looking like it was made in MS Paint?!?!

- No Butt Bounce...
It's minor, but the butt bounce is one of his signature moves...it should've been his dair instead of the stomping thing that has no origin (that I know of) in any Pac-Man games.

- The Trailer
The trailer was okay, but it wasn't as good as some others. It definitely could've been made a lot better.


That said, I'm happy that Pac-Man's in. I just think he could've been handled better.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

The lack of moves from the World games was my only disappointment. I didn't want it to be his entire moveset, but I would of loved to seen the Butt-Bounce or Rev Roll(though the latter wasn't included probably due to Sonic)

 

[Bauske]

I'm actually okay with his lack of Pac-Man World moves. I loved the PMW games, but they don't really speak of his arcade roots, and even though Pac-Land isn't terribly iconic, it's still a pretty big deal for Pac-Man.

There are two things that upset me about Pac-Man's reveal though.

1) The trailer. I love the trailer, and the music in it, but man... every other newcomer got a great cinematic trailer. Mega Man got an epic CG rendered trailer, Rosalina had her interrupting a kart race, Greninja had a massive Pokemon congregation and clash of worlds going on, and Little Mac and Palutena had fully animated scenes with voice acting.

But Pac-Man? Naw. He got a one-minute-forty-second-long montage of in-game footage. No cinematic trailer. No slow pan over a dim arcade with machines of Donkey Kong and Punch-Out and Mario Bros. and ending with a Pac-Man machine. Nope. Just regular old in-game video with a short segment at the end that was more about Game & Watch than it was about Pac-Man. And this isn't even to mention it was revealed over twitter. Behind closed doors. After midnight.

Ugh. Pac-Man is one of the most iconic characters in video game history and that's how they reveal him? I'm sorry, I love the fact that he's in, but that's pathetic.

2) The stages. I honestly feel like the two Pac-Man stages should be switched. Pac-Land would look great on the 3DS with its retro graphics on a smaller scale and Pac-Maze would look amazing in HD. I think moreso I'm just upset that Pac-Man's stage on the console version is the inferior of the two stages. It's not that Pac-Land looks bad, it's just that Pac-Maze looks so much better, and better represents who Pac-Man is.

Those are my main gripes. Still happy he's in, still gonna main him, still going to squeal with joy at every Pac-Man assist trophy and song I unlock, but those two are my biggest gripes.

 

[Jave]

I think the Pac-Land stage is TOO retro. It's great that they're taking a stage from one of my favorite Pac-Man games, but I feel they should have updated the looks a bit, like making the buildings in 3D and such, while still keeping the feel of the original game.

And yeah, I agree the Pac-Man trailer lacked a big cinematic like the others, although the bit with Mr. G&W was cool.

 

[GmanSir]

Some of the unjustifiable hate.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Am i the only one that likes the Pac-Land

 

[Hong]

Am i the only one that likes the Pac-Land

Nope.

I think they preserved 100% visual fidelity. It was either all or nothing when they decided to make it a stage. By that I mean, they either left the graphics exactly as is, or they would best change everything instead of just a few things. In that sense, I think I'll appreciate it a lot more down the road when I see all of the stages.

This might sound crazy, but a Pac-Man stage is not all about the Pac-Man fans. These 80s computer graphics certainly stand out from the existing character selection on the Wii U. By that very same token, I am okay with them making a similar decision with other franchises I like.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Think of this less as list of complaints, and more as the list of things that I felt were a little bit off, and probably would have done differently if I were Sakurai/Namco.

• Let's start with the trailer. It was epic. Simple, quick, and minimalistic, like the Pac-Man game itself. However, it didn't do the character and his legacy as much justice as some of the other trailers. Now granted, it's one of my favorite trailers, and I think it's much better than the Palutena, Greninja, and Fire Emblem trailers, but to know that probably less than half of the effort spent on those trailers went into Pac-Man's is pretty disappointing, but also impressive, considering how much better I found it to be. Still, some sort of cinematic, even if short, would have made it much better. I don't really count the Game & Watch bit, as it wasn't dynamic or exciting, and focused on G&W just as much as Pac-Man.
• The reveal in general. I understand why Nintendo did it that way, but he really should've been at the invitational. We'll never know what the massive fan reaction would have been like. And having him "leaked" through Twitter instead of a stream or such? The most stilting way they could have announced a character, especially a third-party.
• The moveset has a few questionable aspects. First of all, the fire hydrant is really just too much of a stretch, I think, and makes Pac-Man look like he's at a loss for moveset potential. It's a cool move for what it is, but there are a dozen other alternatives that could've been just as good.
• The lack of anything related to Pac-Man World is puzzling. Those games are just as important to Pac-Man's legacy as Pac-Land, and were decently popular to boot. The lack of the butt bounce, rev roll, etc. is pretty disappointing. I would've at least liked a rev roll-like move for his dash attack.
• The use of the pie-shape form in the moveset. Like @ Pacack said, I get it. He's retro, and the pie shape is the favorite design. But my problem lies more with how it was handled, aesthetically. Why have him transform into a smooth, 3D version of the pie shape, while also using flat sprites for the dots that he gobbles while doing so? I feel like he either should've gone into sprite form for these moves, or the dots should have become HD to match.
• Namco Roulette not being a move. I would've liked him to end up as the "God of Namco", summoning various Namco-related paraphernalia to do his bidding. I'm actually glad that they decided to flesh out Pac-Man's own abilities more, but it kind of bugs me that he has only one special move (Up Special) and his grab as the sole Namco references in his moveset. If they were going to bother pulling from other games, I wish they would've gone all the way with it.
• One last thing about the moveset: I feel like he has just a bit too many "normal" attacks. Things such as kicks and punches. I would've expected him to have a few bites, or to throw pellets, or use them as disjointed hitboxes of some sort. Would've given him a bit more personality and fit with his unorthodox style a bit better.
• I don't really like Pac-Land. It might end up a fun stage, but whenever I play on it, I'm just going to be thinking about how I want to play on Pac-Maze instead. It doesn't help that they decided to keep it completely retro. An HD remake of Pac-Land would have been lovely.
• Also, Pac-Maze should have taken design cues from Championship Edition. I know it's not as classic, but it's still an instant and timeless game. A total missed opportunity for what could have been one of the most visually interesting stages in Smash history. I don't see why Pac-Man's stages all have to be so retro. I know that's his thing, but that's the Ice Climbers' thing as well, and their stages are never anachronistic. Oh well. Maybe there will be a Championship version, similarly to the Boxing Ring's variations?
• This isn't his walking animation:
  
  

 

[CyberWolfBia]

1 - Okay; I admit I'm a bit disappointed that Pac isn't getting his updated model in Smash4; ... I mean, don't get me wrong, I always repeat that I love the Pac-Man World series (a little less the 3rd game, but still) and my favorite design for him IS from this series; But, aside of I have embraced his reboot and all what NAMCO is offering nowadays, I think that's sound a little rude with his modern incarnation... not going deep in the aspect of quality, or the general opinion on it, but almost every character in this game is having some kind of representation from their most recent games... and this include Greninja that's pretty recent by himself (someone I wouldn't ever put in the roster); being good or not by the eyes of the public or the professional criticism (Sonic or Metroid);..
- it's good having him in his PW design for the nostalgia, it's really good, I never thought that I would see this model again (and in HD!), BUT doesn't seem right between the rest of the cast, doesn't seem fair. Again, as I said thousand of times during the speculation of his inclusion: the design of the character doesn't mean too much, since they're all representing complete franchises and years of legacy; and his modern version can handle with that normally.

(and I think very incoherent in the point of view of marketing, putting him just as his classic form, when in every other place, he doesn't look like this anymore)

with that said; I hope for some kind of representation from his reboot; stickers (if they're returning) would be nice; .. an Alt. costume (gloves and shoes) or even being more delirious, an entire Alt. Skin (as my current Avatar)... even music or vague trophies would be good for me; I'm not asking too much, I guess.

2 - I really HOPE that his Trophies and every other thing in the game aren't just sprite-based;... We can expect that the S-Flag is his Item; and the Ghost Gang [without the outline] are his Assist Trophy; but Gosh... this more than devalue the character's story; We all know that Pac-Man IS famous by his Arcade roots, but he's not just it... he's much more, he has so much content to share;... so much to bring with him; and Nintendo should have knowledge of this, since more than half of his games are on Nintendo platforms or even exclusives sometimes;.... At least the Pookas aren't done by sprites [and they're not characters born in the Pac-Man series *sigh*];... Well, we'll see... but I have a bad feeling about it (this is a foregone conclusion though).

3 - Yeah, I kinda agree with the rest of you guys; his moveset is not what I idealized; and his trailer was kinda cheap (I find it very cool, though; way much better than Palutena's or the Lucina's one today);... my complaints about his moves aren't even the lack of Pac-Man World attacks, but, a lot of things aren't even from his games... I reached some kind of references from Street Fighter X Tekken, or Pac-Land by animations; but still none of them (aside the chomping, the normal punches and the flip kick) really represents the Pac-Man series... Pac-Land is a cool game to make tributes; it's such an obscure game that receives so little love, but not really screams potential for moveset, at least not in a world where Pac already got a lot of genre of games, and lots of others platform games where you can easy pull moves from there;.. but again, I'm okay with Pac-Land references, not so much with other NAMCO games envolved (I don't like the idea of the Ghosts, Fruits and others sprites summoning either); and his trailer was weak in the aspect of effort... he deserved much more, but at the end, was the coolest trailer until now, anyway.


4 - I'll also agree that his Pac-Land stage is not really cool;... Could be done by 3D models and updated textures like the Wily's Castle;... but no, we got exactly the same old tilesets but in HD; :T... Hope that the music is remixed, at least;
-The Pac-Maze doesn't surprise me, though, I'd like to have it on the Wii U version, but I was expecting....a real maze, not some floating platforms in a black background (well, I guess that my personal expectations about everything were too off, after all).

5 - His icon with the mouth opened for the left bother me so much!!! D=;... Sakurai made this of purpose;.. he saw how all the fakes and fanmades with Pac-Man had the icon to the right! XD [and in his poster, Sonic should had his Master System sprite. :\/]

~well, I sound a bit depressed; but no; I'm quite happy with Pac in the game! I just had some other kind of expectations; I still hope for some of them being fulfilled. =3

 

[MachoCheeze]

Honestly the only thing that bugs me is no awesome CGI trailer akin to the other newcomers. Hell, even a trailer with 8-bit retro graphics would've been really neat

Other than that I'm solid.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

He's too big, no seriously he's twice as fat as Mario.
I get that he's constantly eating, but wow he could've been somewhat smaller (more like the size comparison from Mario Kart Arcade)

He's almost orange, only yellow in his official art.

The fire hydrant

Ghosts only appearing in his Smashes, not circling around doing nothing just 'here, I'm attacking with sprites"

The trampoline was also super random, could've been better as a taunt.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I think I'm going to second the size "problem" as well. They probably wanted to make the "4 mascots" all roughly equal in size, but Pac-Man looks pretty ridiculously huge. Smash has never been that accurate with sizes, and I think that Kirby and Pikachu could stand to lose a few inches as well.

 

[HugoBoss]

Some of his moveset

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It's not the height, but more the fact he's two Marios wide.

He's bigger than most of the cast.

EDIT: This is seen the best in the picture with Pac and Zero Suit Samus.
His foot is as big as her head O.o

 

[StaffofSmashing]

The fact that Sakurai says at the end he has a long history of games but unfortunately only picks from Arcade games and Pac-Land.

 

[Wander]

I'm so glad that his design is from the World series, but confused that hardly any of his moveset is. Why not give him the Butt Bounce and Rev Roll? Or his three-punch combo from PMW3? Pulling from Pac-Land of all games....I don't get it.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I get that Pac-land was like one of the first platformers ever or whatever but WHYYY???
The stage looks really, really fugly. Why we couldn't have something like Pac Village from the much more popular Pac-Man World series I just don't understand

 

[CyberWolfBia]

The fact that Sakurai says at the end he has a long history of games but unfortunately only picks from Arcade games and Pac-Land.

I'm just being boring here, ...Pac-Land is also an Arcade game; Was later ported to home consoles like the original Pac-Man, but... yeah, agreed :\/... We can practically say that less than 5% of Pac-Man content in Smash until now (analysing the character by himself) makes some kind of reference of his non-Arcade games;

I'm so glad that his design is from the World series, but confused that hardly any of his moveset is. Why not give him the Butt Bounce and Rev Roll? Or his three-punch combo from PMW3? Pulling from Pac-Land of all games....I don't get it.

his 3-punch combo is present, actually.. is his Neutral A is reference from that; finishing with the Flip Kick from Pac-Man World 2.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Butt Bounce is not his dair. Rev Roll would've been similar to Sonic's side-b, though...

 

[crazyhandmasterhand]

I pretty much just wpuld have wanted Pac-Maze or A Pac-Man maze in the Wii U version of the game as opposed to only the 3DS version.

 

[Kendall112]

I was a bit disappointed that they didn't use the ghostly adventures design since I felt that it would look best in Smash, but this design is just as good.

 

[Oblivion129]

I'm disappointed that Pac-Man is way too good and overshadows every other newcomer so far (just kidding, I'm not disappointed at that)

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Like some have pointed out, when I saw Pac-Man switching between different Namco sprites, I got excited because it meant Sakurai made an unexpectedly genius move of making Pac-Man the very first summon character in the Smash games. Shortly after his trailer I saw that Sakurai called him the God of Namco, which meant that making him a character that summoned elements from other games feel like a natural decision.

Furthermore, in his trailer you could see the ghosts he was using as attacks for his down smash earlier just roaming around doing their thing on the Wily Castle stage. I got to thinking that, hey, what if all of his attacks that involve sprites can be detached temporarily for stage control? That'd be an interesting dynamic.

I say all this to show how disappointed I was that Namco Roulette was just a taunt. Seeing that meant that the ghosts on Wily Castle were likely just summoned from the Rally X flag, and that Pac-Man was a much less unique character than he initially looked. Now he just punches and kicks, has a forward special where he kinda flies around eating dots but is otherwise meh, a tacky down special that uses a fire hydrant of all things, and another damn trampoline up special. What's with all the third party characters having trampoline specials? Is Snake not returning because he won't fit this trend? I don't quite get it.

So far, the only things about Pac-Man that are truly unique are his neutral special (holding the button doesn't charge the immediately-throwable projectile but instead changes it) and his cool-looking tractor beam grab. Otherwise, while I appreciate that a giant gaming icon like Pac-Man is in Smash, and I'll definitely try him out in the new game, he isn't as unique as he initially looked.

 

[Wonks]

I had two things that irked me. The first was that his move-set wasn't exactly what I had crafted, myself. It's fairly close though. I was also disappointed that he had moves inspired by other Namco games...now that I realize he doesn't, I actually feel better about it.

(I'm not crazy about his Wii U stage, but I can live with it.)

Fantastic character and reveal though--I can't wait to play as him.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm so glad that his design is from the World series, but confused that hardly any of his moveset is. Why not give him the Butt Bounce and Rev Roll? Or his three-punch combo from PMW3? Pulling from Pac-Land of all games....I don't get it.

Because people used to say that Rev Roll is not unique since Jigglypuff, Yoshi, and Sonic can do that... and that Butt Bounce is not unique since Bowser and Yoshi can do that.

 

[The Smashing Samurai]

They didn't explicitly show his Final-Smash like other characters. You know, it was kind of surprising to see he would be in SSB at all.

 

[Skyfox2000]

He's just got 1 move from the Pac-Man World Games and that's his U-air.

 

[Zzuxon]

He's just got 1 move from the Pac-Man World Games and that's his U-air.

Also, the third hit of his jab combo.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Also, the third hit of his jab combo.

I think the Uair and jab are just as likely to be entirely coincidental as they are to be intentional references.

 

[Zzuxon]

I think the Uair and jab are just as likely to be entirely coincidental as they are to be intentional references.

The up air maybe, but it doesn't exactly make sense for 2 punches to lead into a backflip.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

The up air maybe, but it doesn't exactly make sense for 2 punches to lead into a backflip.

Yeah, I'll give you that.

Uair is pretty generic, though, and I can see any character getting a move like that. I feel like they could have easily just slapped that move onto that input without even thinking about Pac-Man World.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Deleted because I'm stupid.

 

[D-idara]

Criticisms? The stages! I mean, don't get me wrong, I agree with the fact that Pac-Land takes us back to those primitive, memorable DOS graphics and I don't think it should've been HD'd...but come on! Pac-Maze a 3DS exclusive? Pac-Maze's the most memorable and recognizable Pac-Man location, plus it looks pretty balanced for serious play and the aesthetics are great, updating what needs to be updated and keeping the right amount of retro charm! Arcades are kind of a mix between handheld and home-consoles, so I really don't get the reasoning behind putting Pac-Maze on the 3DS only, I don't see the problem with having two Pac-Man stages on the Wii U version...

Another complaint would have to be that the trailer wasn't epic enough...I like how they used the Red, Blue and Yellow theme, but like an earlier poster said, it would've been amazing to see like, an abandoned old Arcade, a lot of memorable Arcade Nintendo games shown, even some SEGA ones, and then a Pac-Man Arcade appears and suddenly lights up, the "Pac-Man Park" song starting to play, that would've been amazing.

 

[Placebo Effect]

Seems to me like he's just meant to represent Namco more than himself. Which I'm ok with, since that's all Nintendo seems to be able to do anyways.
But also I would have liked some moves from the Pac-Man World games. His side-b (the dot chain or whatever) seems really cool though.

 

[Crawful]

Not much really annoys me about Pac-Man himself, as he was my most wanted newcomer, but there are a couple of little things.
-The fact that the Namco Roulette isn't a customized move for his Neutral-B. Come on, it would've been awesome. But, I can live without it.
-The trailer felt a little rushed, as if they made it without wanting to put too much focus on Pac. A lot of it was like "Look, he's in the game!" But it was a little short, and there was no cutscene, unlock every other trailer for a newcomer, which is odd considering Namco is making the game.
-The execution of his reveal. What should have been done was that at the end of the invitational, the trailer would play and then Sakurai would show off the character, along with maybe letting ZeRo play as Pac-Man as a crowd pleasing reward, and letting Hungrybox fight Pac-Man, or maybe even having ZeRo fight Sakurai with Sakurai playing as Pac-Man. But instead of something like that, they showed one of the biggest requested characters and one of the hypest characters behind closed doors. Plus, it was immediately leaked onto the internet that this had happened, so why not just show it during the huge tournament?

 

[Bauske]

Not much really annoys me about Pac-Man himself, as he was my most wanted newcomer, but there are a couple of little things.
-The fact that the Namco Roulette isn't a customized move for his Neutral-B. Come on, it would've been awesome. But, I can live without it.
-The trailer felt a little rushed, as if they made it without wanting to put too much focus on Pac. A lot of it was like "Look, he's in the game!" But it was a little short, and there was no cutscene, unlock every other trailer for a newcomer, which is odd considering Namco is making the game.
-The execution of his reveal. What should have been done was that at the end of the invitational, the trailer would play and then Sakurai would show off the character, along with maybe letting ZeRo play as Pac-Man as a crowd pleasing reward, and letting Hungrybox fight Pac-Man, or maybe even having ZeRo fight Sakurai with Sakurai playing as Pac-Man. But instead of something like that, they showed one of the biggest requested characters and one of the hypest characters behind closed doors. Plus, it was immediately leaked onto the internet that this had happened, so why not just show it during the huge tournament?

I will never, ever, ever understand why they revealed him at the closed-door roundtable and not at the end of the invitational. Never. Stupidest decision ever.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

I will never, ever, ever understand why they revealed him at the closed-door roundtable and not at the end of the invitational. Never. Stupidest decision ever.

The roundtable was meant to be streamed at one point wasn't it? If that's the case, why did they decide not to stream it when they had a character reveal.