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For New Smash Players

VKatana

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So its come to my attention and Im sure the attention of the rest of the Smash community that as of the release of Smash 4 (both the 3ds and wii u releases) there's going to be a whole new flock of competitive players who may not be experienced in prior smash games. I've seen a couple tweets that I believe Prog retweeted which say to give these new players some time and treat them kindly and whatnot (as they may be completely new to tourneys or E-Sports in general). Speaking as one of these players, what advice could you guys give me as to joining in on the tourney scene for the first time? and what kind of practice routines can help improve me/how can I judge myself ready for a tourney or not? Thanks! ~V. Katana
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

Smash Ace
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Other than playing the game and doing research, can't tell you much. Learning matchups will be good eventually.
 
Joined
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Practice under official or recommended rulesets; play with skilled human players as often as you can (training against the CPU can be problematic because you're training yourself to react to things that actual human players won't do); read what other players have discovered about your preferred character; don't give up if you get smoked your first time competing; and have fun doing it all or there's no point :>
 

FloatingMew

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I'm also interested to know. I've wanted to start learning smash competitively for months, I ruled out the idea until I could finally main Rosie in smash 4. Once Sm4sh is here, I want to go into the tournament scene with Rosie.
 

JamietheAuraUser

Smash Lord
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somewhere west of Unova
Practice under official or recommended rulesets; play with skilled human players as often as you can (training against the CPU can be problematic because you're training yourself to react to things that actual human players won't do); read what other players have discovered about your preferred character; don't give up if you get smoked your first time competing; and have fun doing it all or there's no point :>
Yeah, that's a definite problem with fighting CPUs. The tactics that work on CPUs are mutually exclusive from the ones that work on humans. Trying to fight a CPU the way you would a human can actually result in you getting your *** kicked. Versus CPUs, there's no risk-reward going on: if there's any chance at all of a move being unsafe, you WILL get punished. On the other hand, CPUs are complete idiots and it's easy to bait them into falling for the same stupid strategy repeatedly, which won't work on a human player.

To fight a CPU: find a tactic they don't punish you for and spam it, because the CPU will never learn, but will punish everything else by perfect-shielding it, sidestepping/rolling to dodge it with frame-perfect timing, or escaping it with frame-perfect SDI.
To fight a human: switch your tactics up all the time so they can't predict you.
 
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RascalTheCharizard

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
987
1. If possible, play the already released games competitively whilst you're waiting. Certain mechanics will not transfer over, but basic understanding of strategy will. Gotta build those fundamentals yo. Trust me, any experience is always better than no experience.

2. Experiment in your practice sessions. You know the saying that "Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect."? Well this is the best mindset to have when training. If you aren't making the best use of your time, then you aren't going to improve as quickly as you otherwise could. One part of Smash Bros is learning what all of your attacks are and what they do and what "techs" you can perform with them, but another is learning how to apply them. Try new things with the knowledge you gain. Also take practice matches seriously, they're a good way to hone your skills.
TL;DR - Don't "autopilot".

3. Find your motivation. Everyone's drive to win is fueled by something.

I was gonna add some more things, but @ Wanderer from Roseyard Wanderer from Roseyard already went over them.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
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So its come to my attention and Im sure the attention of the rest of the Smash community that as of the release of Smash 4 (both the 3ds and wii u releases) there's going to be a whole new flock of competitive players who may not be experienced in prior smash games. I've seen a couple tweets that I believe Prog retweeted which say to give these new players some time and treat them kindly and whatnot (as they may be completely new to tourneys or E-Sports in general). Speaking as one of these players, what advice could you guys give me as to joining in on the tourney scene for the first time? and what kind of practice routines can help improve me/how can I judge myself ready for a tourney or not? Thanks! ~V. Katana
Well, it's hard to say specifically without having the final game (so no one can say for sure what should be practiced most), but a good place to start would be just playing the regular game until you find characters you like, can beat level 9 coms in stock matches regularly, and can beat Classic (at least, add Adventure/All Star/whatever for more challenge) on the highest mode.

Basically, by time you've exhausted the single player content, you'd probably be at least good enough to begin working on the more complicated abilities needed for regular competition. Of course, if you just don't like the single player content, I'd suggest finding either a more experienced friend who is good at teaching, or another friend who is new so that you can learn together. Of course, the For Glory 1v1 matches may help, too, especially if you don't have many people around.

Basically, play a lot and have fun. If you have fun, you'll want to (and gradually naturally) get better in general.

I also recommend spectating streams (PM and whatnot for now) just to get kinda used to how tournaments are often run.
 

Sykkamorre

Fights using psychology.
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Another god thing to do is watch high level play of your character. Find a player known to be exceptional with the char you're learning and mimic what the do.
It's like martial arts, start with mimicry and THEN move on to creating your own style.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
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Another good thing to do is watch high level play of your character. Find a player known to be exceptional with the char you're learning and mimic what the do.
It's like martial arts, start with mimicry and THEN move on to creating your own style.
I'm going to slightly disagree here, as a player who learned the basics in essential isolation (no competing out of my friend circle, no internet watching, etc). I would suggest learning the fundamentals yourself, then learning the intermediate to advanced tricks via mimicry, then tweaking them to your own strategies.

Entering new friend circles, I had a slight edge in unpredictability in Brawl since I normally initiated with Marth's Dancing Blade instead of going for grabs and fairs forever. It caught people off guard, even if it wasn't as strong an initiation. That sort of versatility is what you want. If you use the same "best" strategy, then it only takes an opponent knowing that strategy for you to lose. Try your own mixups against players of differing skills.

The best player is the one who knows when to use every move in his arsenal, rather than the one who knows only a single effective strategy. The same can be argued for characters, as well. If you can and enjoy doing so, play characters with different fighting styles. Not only will it deepen your matchup knowledge, but it'll also make sure that if you enter a match with a really bad matchup (which varies by game and whatnot) that you have a fallback that, even if you're less skilled with, may be unusual enough to make up for that skill deficit.
 

Sykkamorre

Fights using psychology.
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I'm going to slightly disagree here, as a player who learned the basics in essential isolation (no competing out of my friend circle, no internet watching, etc). I would suggest learning the fundamentals yourself, then learning the intermediate to advanced tricks via mimicry, then tweaking them to your own strategies.

Entering new friend circles, I had a slight edge in unpredictability in Brawl since I normally initiated with Marth's Dancing Blade instead of going for grabs and fairs forever. It caught people off guard, even if it wasn't as strong an initiation. That sort of versatility is what you want. If you use the same "best" strategy, then it only takes an opponent knowing that strategy for you to lose. Try your own mixups against players of differing skills.

The best player is the one who knows when to use every move in his arsenal, rather than the one who knows only a single effective strategy. The same can be argued for characters, as well. If you can and enjoy doing so, play characters with different fighting styles. Not only will it deepen your matchup knowledge, but it'll also make sure that if you enter a match with a really bad matchup (which varies by game and whatnot) that you have a fallback that, even if you're less skilled with, may be unusual enough to make up for that skill deficit.
Good point. I arrogantly assumed that people would master the Basics by themselves. Touché good sir.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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This thread asks good questions; here's the main thing. You are already ready for a tournament. No matter how good or bad you are now, going out and getting your feet wet is the single best thing you can do for yourself. It will both get you familiar with the tournament format and will introduce you to a ton of new players who will help you see more of the game than you could ever discover on your own. The single biggest predictor of being a successful tournament player is attending tournaments; just go out there, have fun, and you'll improve more than you might have suspected.

As per the particulars of how to play well, I'd say the most important thing is just being mindful of your play. If something doesn't work, cut it out while you play and later go back and figure out why it didn't work. If you kept going for forward smashes and kept getting blocked and punished, figure out what kinds of situations you were using it in that were easy to block and also re-evaluate why you want to keep using a move that's so unsafe on block that you are easily punished so much. If you on the other hand have something that often works well for you, be able to identify that too and figure out how to maximize it. Maybe you like to throw out a lot of dtilts and hit with a lot of them. Figure out what situations you instictively dtilt and why it hits so much then, and then see if there are other areas in your game that that kind of thinking could be applied to help you. Always seek out strong opponents while doing this too; sometimes certain things will work well against weaker players but will be punished hard by strong players. As you build experience, you'll learn how to read other players and figure out what it really means to read an opponent (which often can be a translation for figuring out what you are able to get away with against a particular someone else).

As long as you do this, play many strong opponents while thinking about your play critically, it will be easy to improve. The technical stuff will come, and it will also be obvious what you need to practice if you follow the procedure. If you miss a tech and lose because of it, your critical thinking will tell you that you're bad at that tech and should practice it in training mode, and it will help you more then than just practicing it now before you've run into it live in the field.

I'd also end by encouraging you to be open minded. A lot of times we pidgeon-hole ourselves as players, and we thus build our own limits. "I'm not fast enough to do that" can easily become "I'm building a weakness of sloth into my game". "I don't use lame spam and camping strategies" can mean "my opponent can play lame against me even when losing and count on me always approaching". Even when it comes to main characters, think about it. Focusing your efforts on one character who will be strong for you can be smart, but make sure you're making an informed decision and always ask yourself if picking someone else might help you more. If you don't, you'll play someone who has similar basic skills to you but is more willing to do more to win, and you'll lose. Always be the one most willing to do the most to win, and you'll never have that problem.

I wish you all the best of luck. Merely asking how to become a stronger player is indicative of being on the right road; just keep asking yourself those questions while actually playing, and it will come.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
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Good point. I arrogantly assumed that people would master the Basics by themselves. Touché good sir.
Not at all, it's hard to tell how much experience people have. Your post is great for anyone who knows the game and simply is new to competition. I wasn't sure that was his case, so I elaborated further for getting to the skilled part of play. Conscious imitation (as Ampharos mentioned) is definitely a strong way to improve.

I'd also like to add: don't be afraid to ask questions, and don't let rude or hostile players turn you away from trying to improve. There will always be someone willing to help you improve, you just have to find them.
 

VKatana

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Thanks to everyone who took the time to write these great replies! I can already tell this is a very friendly and open community.
 

LancerStaff

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Probably the biggest hurdle is the "don't do cheap stuff" thing. Many longtime Smash players (not talking pros, here) get stuck in the idea that certain moves or strategies are unfair, which causes them to stunt their overall ability. Very, very rarely are bans and limits on moves are necessary in SSB, so use everything you got. The most important rule of getting better is that there's no external rules.
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

Smash Ace
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Probably the biggest hurdle is the "don't do cheap stuff" thing. Many longtime Smash players (not talking pros, here) get stuck in the idea that certain moves or strategies are unfair, which causes them to stunt their overall ability. Very, very rarely are bans and limits on moves are necessary in SSB, so use everything you got. The most important rule of getting better is that there's no external rules.
This is the one that gets me. I don't mind it though since I just play to have fun.
 

Ellipsis

Smash Cadet
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Apr 12, 2014
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Probably the biggest hurdle is the "don't do cheap stuff" thing. Many longtime Smash players (not talking pros, here) get stuck in the idea that certain moves or strategies are unfair, which causes them to stunt their overall ability. Very, very rarely are bans and limits on moves are necessary in SSB, so use everything you got. The most important rule of getting better is that there's no external rules.
This. When a playgroup bans a move or tactic, it usually keeps them from discovering how to counter it. Growth stops. I've seen it too many times.
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

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It's necessary, though. The rules of the game are already defined, and people's definitions of cheap vary greatly. The best way to handle this is to cut all outside rules.
It's my personal opinion of what I consider as cheap. I could really care less what anyone else considers cheap. But if I consider it cheap I'm likely not going to do it because I find it boring and uncomfortable. I don't go to tournaments so I don't consider it a big deal.
 

LancerStaff

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It's my personal opinion of what I consider as cheap. I could really care less what anyone else considers cheap. But if I consider it cheap I'm likely not going to do it because I find it boring and uncomfortable. I don't go to tournaments so I don't consider it a big deal.
Just saying, using rules like that often causes arguments. And what if you fight somebody else online who uses that kind of stuff? You'll probably end up losing because of your inexperience with it.
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

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Just saying, using rules like that often causes arguments. And what if you fight somebody else online who uses that kind of stuff? You'll probably end up losing because of your inexperience with it.
Why would it cause an argument? How I play only affects me.
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

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Like if somebody tells you how to play better and you refuse for no apparent reason, or if you look/act upset because you lost to something you don't approve of.
Meh. It really doesn't bother me if I lose as long as I have fun. And being cheap is boring and not fun for me. One of the few things I've considered cheap and boring was the end of the invitational.

I do find it kinda funny how this really seems to bother you.
 
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LancerStaff

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Meh. It really doesn't bother me if I lose as long as I have fun. And being cheap is boring and not fun for me. One of the few things I've considered cheap and boring was the end of the invitational.

I do find it kinda funny how this really seems to bother you.
No, I'm just curious as to what you think. I don't really understand the playing for fun mentality, if you get what I'm saying.
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

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No, I'm just curious as to what you think. I don't really understand the playing for fun mentality, if you get what I'm saying.
I suppose we're different kinds of gamers then. Don't think I could possibly explain it in a way you'd get. Like I can never understand what people see in racing and sports games.
 

Senario

Smash Ace
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So its come to my attention and Im sure the attention of the rest of the Smash community that as of the release of Smash 4 (both the 3ds and wii u releases) there's going to be a whole new flock of competitive players who may not be experienced in prior smash games. I've seen a couple tweets that I believe Prog retweeted which say to give these new players some time and treat them kindly and whatnot (as they may be completely new to tourneys or E-Sports in general). Speaking as one of these players, what advice could you guys give me as to joining in on the tourney scene for the first time? and what kind of practice routines can help improve me/how can I judge myself ready for a tourney or not? Thanks! ~V. Katana
As the organizer for my college's esports smash scene I this is something that has been frequently happening since EVO 2013 and the Smash Documentary generally a few things.

Learn basics: Regardless of what you play you should learn the details about what you can do in your game. For example, if melee is your thing you would need to learn how to Short hop, Fast Fall, and L cancel minimally. Generally you can ask other players and most of them will tell you how to do it, some may even show you. Of course it is up to you how much you practice but anybody can get really good. All it takes is time and effort with pretty much all things.

Don't get too salty: Basically try to take your losses with your wins, you are going to lose a fair amount of times and win some games but always remember not to get too frustrated and discouraged as that tends to make you defeat yourself through your mentality. If you think you can't do good, you likely won't do that good. Just as a note, Korean DJ lost a whole bunch of money by money matching a bunch of people and losing. But he still ended up as one of the more well known smash players around. The community doesn't generally like ostracizing players based on skill as everybody starts somewhere. And in any healthy college or city scene I think it is common sense to discourage bad behavior regardless of skill level. (Don't be a Leffen)

Have fun: There is no point in competing if you don't enjoy the game. People have stuck with any competitive game because they enjoy the game in addition to being good at it. Pick a character you feel you can do well with and you like, this doesn't mean pick a character because they are your favorite. At a competitive level some characters simply won't be as good as others or have bad matchups that make it so. For example, I love playing as Roy in Melee but Roy simply isn't that great of a character. I tried for a long time to make him good and it really didn't work out.

There is a lot of overlap in general playstyles for fighting games and using that to your advantage lets you find characters you may not have known you enjoyed based on playstyle. For example, if I play ganondorf and I feel like I can't push him farther for whatever reason and get better then I can look at other characters who have similar sideways kill moves such as Sheik and captain falcon. I can also experiment with fairly unique characters in terms of playstyle like Marth's spacing style. What matters is you enjoy the character and they are reasonably good (my rule is mid tier or higher generally works, you can prove to other people that somebody who is considered not as good actually is really good but it'll be a lot of time and effort since you likely will be figuring out the character yourself.)

That's all for joining.

For practice? Set a schedule. Sort of like exercising you have to practice things based on your game of choice. Try to balance between technical aspects and actual playing vs people. Watching videos also helps.
 

Sykkamorre

Fights using psychology.
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When I was learning the game, I only had one friend that was decent to play against who was completely oblivious to the various techniques of smash. I got a load of practice against wolf thanks to him and ended up teaching him how to shorthop bairs and do other things that wolf players do to improve my own game.

While this was fantastic to help me get to an intermediate level, I quickly discovered just how difficult the matchup was for my main which in turn, made me move onto getting a secondary char and learn their moves and style.

Challenge forces you to improve. Challenge yourself.
 
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