Flying Slam nerf?

[Strider755]

OK, so I was playing the 3DS version, and when I tried to do a Bowsercide with the flying slam, it KO'd me first, and the target survived (it couldn't recover tho). Is this a nerf? If so, **** you, sakurai!

 

[Pikachutobal]

Yes, the Bowsercide is currently nerfed
But it remains effective against characters with bad Vertical recovery

 

[Jerodak]

This is actually pretty old news, the flying slam has been bugged like this since the 1.04 patch. Hopefully it'll be fixed as soon as possible.

 

[failsnail99]

This is actually pretty old news, the flying slam has been bugged like this since the 1.04 patch. Hopefully it'll be fixed as soon as possible.

Not bugged,this was intentional

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Not only does it guarantee your own death, but some characters with excellent recoveries like Villager, Meta Knight, Kirby, Jump Shulk, etc. can actually make it back by mashing their double jump until their up B brings them back.
It is very dangerous to use Flying Slam on your last stock for this very reason. Use it only mid stage when you can kill with the knockback rather than attempt a Bowsercide because it still has excellent vertical killing power at high %s.
Edit: Another reason not to use Flying Slam on last stock is because control over it can be very wonky. Sometimes your opponent will inexplicably gain more control over the move, so you may accidentally fly offstage and die if you're too close and don't expect it...

 

[Strider755]

I know Flying Slam has good KO power. Still, **** you, sakurai!

 

[Corgian]

We have several threads dedicated to this. There's a list of stages where this doesn't happen, and it instead takes both players to sudden death.

I examined all the Omega stages as well as any stage I think might become legal as a neutral or counterpick, and these are my findings:

*Note: Unlockable stages will be added as I unlock them

Normal Stage Sudden Death
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Custom Stages (wont be used, but thought it would be nice to know)
Duck Hunt

Normal Stage Bowser Dies First
Battlefield
Town and City
Skyloft
Halberd
Mushroom Kingdom U
Lylat
Town and City
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Wooly World
Yoshi's Island
Smashville

Omega Stage Sudden Death
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Mario Circuit
Mario Circuit (Brawl)
Bridge of Eldin
Pyrosphere
Norfair
Port Town Aero Drive
Wooly World
Yoshi's Island
Great Cave Offensive
Orbital Gate Assault
Mario Galaxy
Palutena's Temple
Skyworld
Garden of Hope
Wii Fit Studio
Gaur Plain
75m
Wrecking Crew
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Wily Castle
Smashville
Duck Hunt

Omega Stage Bowser DIes First
Skyloft
Battlefield
Mushroom Kingdom U
Luigi's Mansion
Jungle Hijinks
Hyrule Temple
Lylat Cruise
Kalos Pokemon League
Onett
Coliseum
Castle Seige
Gamer
Town and City
Boxing Ring
Windy Hill Zone

If you really need to kill with Bowsercide, then this is where you go to do so. Really, Bowser has more than enough other options to be pissed about this. Sakurai poured more time into this game than you know, to the point of exhaustion to make people happy. No need to get bitter because he nerfed a suicide move.

 

[Strider755]

Apparently, not enough time to put shiny pokemon in there. I was hoping I could use a shiny Lizardon.

 

[Corgian]

okie dokie

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Not bugged,this was intentional

It is bugged. Use flying slam on Battlefield and the opponent can attempt a recovery. Use it on FD instead, and the move kills both players as intended. It's based not just on stages but on the phases of those stages. I wrote a thread with my own findings.

Furthermore, if this was an intentional change, then there's another contradiciton. This issue was present prior to the 1.04 patch, but in reverse. It was Bowser that could attempt a recovery. The designers saw this hickup and clearly failed in correctly fixing the issue. Flying Slam has always been bugged, and hopefully it is corrected in one of the upcoming updates. By design, Smash Bros. permits the use of suicide moves.

 

[Tino]

lol What you been doing these last 4 months or so?
Yeah, using Bowsercide now kills him first instead of the victim, which means if you attempt do that playing For Glory on your last stock, you lose the match.

 

[Strider755]

I hadn't updated until recently.

 

[failsnail99]

It is bugged. Use flying slam on Battlefield and the opponent can attempt a recovery. Use it on FD instead, and the move kills both players as intended. It's based not just on stages but on the phases of those stages. I wrote a thread with my own findings.

Furthermore, if this was an intentional change, then there's another contradiciton. This issue was present prior to the 1.04 patch, but in reverse. It was Bowser that could attempt a recovery. The designers saw this hickup and clearly failed in correctly fixing the issue. Flying Slam has always been bugged, and hopefully it is corrected in one of the upcoming updates. By design, Smash Bros. permits the use of suicide moves.

Oh okay thanks for filling me on that. I thought bowser was supposed to be killed first during the koopacide as a nerf

 

[Zethoro]

Oh okay thanks for filling me on that. I thought bowser was supposed to be killed first during the koopacide as a nerf

The buggy part is how on stages where Bowser dies first the opponent can jump out of Bowsercide. For characters with good vertical recoveries, this means they can recover.

 

[Godzillionaire]

I was actually glad that they removed it, it got annoying seeing people play bowser just to bowsercide

 

[SafCar]

I was actually glad that they removed it, it got annoying seeing people play bowser just to bowsercide

Well yeah, but even Brawl makes the point that Flying Slam is supposed to kill both at once. Here's hoping the balance patch will put an end to the sudden death debates once and for all.

 

[Jerodak]

Indeed, only two more days until we know for sure. At the very least, as long as it always K.Os the opponent, I'll be satisfied.

 

[S_B]

I was actually glad that they removed it, it got annoying seeing people play bowser just to bowsercide

No one except the scrubbiest of scrubby scrubs should EVER have been getting Bowsercided.

Go check out how it works in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/flying-slam-who-has-control-update-major-revisions.397894/

Basically, Bowser cannot reliably take someone over the edge unless he has a MASSIVE % lead, and given that Bowser is a big, fat, slow target, he should NEVER have that lead by design on even stock.

If Bowser is able to take someone over the edge with him, he has dramatically outplayed them and deserves to win.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Go check out how it works in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/flying-slam-who-has-control-update-major-revisions.397894/

Basically, Bowser cannot reliably take someone over the edge unless he has a MASSIVE % lead, and given that Bowser is a big, fat, slow target, he should NEVER have that lead by design on even stock.

I generally agree with this line of thinking. Some people will argue that there's no way they would know they have control, but all you can say is learn the matchup before you complain. People complain that Dthrow followups from Diddy and similar characters are inescapable, but neglecting to DI is pretty much the same thing as neglecting to control flying slam as the victim.

I don't know how flying slam will get nerfed, but all I really want is for it to be brought in line with existing suicide moves from Ganon, Charizard, etc. Both characters die immediately with no chance for recovery, and no sudden death. The win should be awarded to Bowser when both he and the victim were on last stock. Yes, I do think Bowsercide is more common then the other existing suicide moves, but that's no reason Bowsercide should be treated differently.

I really like the current balance of Bowser needing a massive damage lead to have full control. Because the absolute best time to strategically Bowsercide is when you have over 100%, same as any suicide move.

 

[S_B]

I generally agree with this line of thinking. Some people will argue that there's no way they would know they have control, but all you can say is learn the matchup before you complain. People complain that Dthrow followups from Diddy and similar characters are inescapable, but neglecting to DI is pretty much the same thing as neglecting to control flying slam as the victim.

I don't know how flying slam will get nerfed, but all I really want is for it to be brought in line with existing suicide moves from Ganon, Charizard, etc. Both characters die immediately with no chance for recovery, and no sudden death. The win should be awarded to Bowser when both he and the victim were on last stock. Yes, I do think Bowsercide is more common then the other existing suicide moves, but that's no reason Bowsercide should be treated differently.

I really like the current balance of Bowser needing a massive damage lead to have full control. Because the absolute best time to strategically Bowsercide is when you have over 100%, same as any suicide move.

That's why it annoys me when people whine about Bowsercide: the move is already balanced around it being VERY hard to pull off. The only change it could stand to have is both players die when they go off the screen but Bowser always dies 2nd.

 

[MagiusNecros]

At least Ganoncide is still a thing.

 

[S_B]

At least Ganoncide is still a thing.

The fact that Ganoncide remained unchanged pretty much confirms that the Bowsercide "nerf" was completely unintentional.

After all, Ganoncide works regardless of %...

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah pretty sure magicant screwed us over.