Fire gimping characters. What have we been MISSING!

[gojira345]

With the new ability to angle Bowser's firebreath, I have been using it far more than Melee.

However, I look at tournament vids, and people don't seem to use it at ALL. This is a shame, as 10 to 20 damage is 10 to 20 damage, but meh, let me get to the point.

Lvl 9's bother me. They aren't good for practice and they perfectly DI to get out of everything. They powersheild and spotdodge in ways that are inhumanly precognitive, and even swaying the fire breath seems to do nothing as they are so good at it.

That leads me to this.

I've noticed that if I short hop, both human beings and comps try to recover below the stage so as not to have to airdodge an aerial, possibly gimping themselves. Mid shorthop I've started firing off fire breath, and aiming it up immediatley, then letting go if I see the up b animation from under the stage, or if I can't gimp the character with it, just aim down, covering the sweetspot, and thus racking up free damage as they desperatley wait for my fire to cool off.

Things you can do with this?

Well, you are only getting Jiggs with this if their DI is bad, but then again, I've had it happen.

If you can push MK far enough down and wait for the up b to let go, he's screwed. Catching him can be difficult, but if you aim up then drag him down it is possible.

Falco doesn't like this at all, if you can catch him with this, push him down as fas as you can then let go, or you will hit him and let him up from higher due to the shortening breath.

Tether users seem to be fine with this, but I could be wrong.

Mainly what I am saying though is that you can push them down, and then hog if you let go and they have a charging up b like Fox or Diddy. In fact, I bet Bowser mains do this to Diddy anyway...

This doesn't work on Snake obviously.

Try it though for yourself, short hop, and when they DI down, blow fire up, then rake them down. Kills that second jump very well, and forces some characters to take damage repeatidly, even if they can up b through.

I wonder whom else has poor vertical recovery to gimp with this....another Bowser?

Sorry if old, but haven't seen it mentioned too much, and definitely haven't seen it used, or even attempted, which is a shame...

Or am I missing something about being able to DI or airdodge out as some characters?

 

[Retro Gaming]

While using Charizard, I sometimes use its Flamethrower for similar purposes. I don't really angle it up, though, I simply let it go, then angle down. Some characters have absolute fits about fire near the edge, like Link. Some characters have an easy time using their Up specials to escape, but some of them (Like Ike) have to suffer the lag from landing and are open to a lot of things (I typically grab them and throw them back over).

Falco can't really stand this, and you could probably surprise one if they try to recover with their Phantasm.

Once someone's in it I normally angle it up so that they have to travel farther to get to the ledge. If they're going to get out anyway, I normally angle down after to keep following them a little longer.

If Olimar tries to recover from above the stage, Flamethrower is very easy to catch him with. Ivysaur gets out pretty quickly due to the fire weakness, and I'm pretty sure ZSS can do her flip out of the flames.

I'll warn you that some characters are pretty easy to get with this, but once they get close they have quick aerials and can get you between hitboxes. For example, Marth's hit me with Fair and Dolphin Slash out of this, so now I normally let go if they're coming towards me.

 

[gojira345]

Ouch, good to know. I notice that if you angle it perfectly down and hit them with the tip, it pushes them down as the softest spike in the game though it could be DI'd otherwise I guess. Awesome to know Charizarad can do it too! He's already got a spike and killer recovery, so that is good to know.\

 

[Admiral Pit]

You forgot to mention Fire gimps Pit's Wings of Icarus, I shouldnt be saying it since I myself use a Pit, but Bowser isnt a common sight around anyways, well to me.

 

[gojira345]

Yeah, he can eat up Rob's fuel too.

If you hold on too long though, you hit Pit again after the gimp and he gets his wings back!

 

[Greenstreet]

interesting.. hopefully we will see it in more tounryes from now on.. it has potential.

 

[Judge Judy]

I've seen this before, it only works well on characters who don't have invincibility frames during their Up B. It works well on people like Pit but it doesn't work well on people like Mario.

 

[gojira345]

I know, I've been testing it, and even Jiggs can fall victim if you play your cards right.

Mario and Luigi both power right through.

I'd like to note that alot of the new characters have recoveries that Bowser can screw with the fire breath, or that blatantly power through it, and most of them if not all are bad matchups on land.

Coincidence?

Has anyone seen a vid of this used in tournament? I'd love to see it used on a human at all really. It's too good to go unused.

 

[calv]

I use the fire lots, it's good for keeping them off the edge like you said, but also just for racking up damage, in Brawl it's a lot harder to DI towards the fire than in melee, so most people tend to back off.

 

[gojira345]

If they don't panic and have a tether you could fake them out by blowing real quick then jumping down with fair to stage spike.

Screw you, tether user!

 

[S_B]

If you FB the tip of Ike's head as he comes up for his Up+B, he immediately falls and has to try and start it over, often missing the ledge sweet-spot the 2nd time.

 

[gojira345]

Sweet. I wonder if we can force him out of quickdraw.

 

[DiasFlac]

nothing new to me but good info for others

 

[gojira345]

I know, I NEVER see it used.

I've seen Bowsers just sit there and try to tilt a Pit in up b mode, or even catch people in fire then quit.

Best way to do it in my opinion.

Fake an aerial Jiggy style, then begin fire on second jump very high, ramming up to aim up, unless they go low.

Rake it overy them, pushing them down slowly and patiently, never going too fast or too far down, as keeping them away horizontally is good too.

Make sure the HEAD or TIP of the fire is what hits them, not the middle, and keep at least half of the HEAD over their head, so they can't get through. Should look like they are barely getting hit.

IF they pause and you hear a startup noise, that is up b. Either keep going if MK, or stop if anyone else.

If Jiggs uses pound, you win. Let go.

Edge hog, and if they look like up b will make it back, or in MK's case, if he tries to glide to the other side, sh dair for the meteor if safe, hog, or go to the other edge and hog if MK.

I wish I could make vids. The best thing is that this seems to be designed to gimp the ungimpable.

Awesome.

 

[xiferp]

Dair meteors? :O

 

[gojira345]

Yes sir it does on the last hit.

 

[BurtonEarny]

but its hard to do... and not generally safe

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Ah man I'd love to see some vids of this if anyone could do some to get a better idea of what you mean. I'll test out using fire a lot more from now on when I play (for some reason I'd mostly stopped... dunno why).

 

[gojira345]

Yeah, just feint an aerial. Most people feel safer really low or high recovering against bowser. Don't actually do the aerial, then dj and fire upwards and rake them down.