Fighting a Falco?

[Rango the Mercenary]

Shine

Dair, Fair, Bair, Shine, I don't even know the full combo, but I know it's practically inescapable till he gets me to 50-70%. His laser game is easy, but he gets in my face, gets "inside" of me (I can't hit him off of me with any move or even Up B while he tries to shine me), and he reads Up B and Counters when I try to get him off of me. I try spacing with Fair, but he has no respect for it because he knows how to beat it.

I don't know any of Marth's combos. I pretty much play him like Brawl. I know Up Throw is a fairly successful chaingrab, but sometimes he'll get out of it. I managed to FSmash from Up throw once. And I got lucky with FThrow, dash attack, reverse FSmash. But stuff like that rarely happens since I don't actually know any of his real combos.

 

[magister54]

Shine

Dair, Fair, Bair, Shine, I don't even know the full combo, but I know it's practically inescapable till he gets me to 50-70%. His laser game is easy, but he gets in my face, gets "inside" of me (I can't hit him off of me with any move or even Up B while he tries to shine me), and he reads Up B and Counters when I try to get him off of me. I try spacing with Fair, but he has no respect for it because he knows how to beat it.

I don't know any of Marth's combos. I pretty much play him like Brawl. I know Up Throw is a fairly successful chaingrab, but sometimes he'll get out of it. I managed to FSmash from Up throw once. And I got lucky with FThrow, dash attack, reverse FSmash. But stuff like that rarely happens since I don't actually know any of his real combos.

Learn some more combos for Marth so that you won't be so predictable, but it's more important to be able to react than to do a pre-learned combo for a situation.

Chain grabbing is good but will only work until a certain percent and then the Falco will DI out of it. Learn to powershield the lasers and space your fairs. Throw a counter in occasionally if you are getting too much pressure from dairs and bairs. Do a lot of poking with down tilt to help space when Falco approaches with nairs and bairs.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

What are Marth's combos and best way to escape the shine trap?

 

[magister54]

What are Marth's combos and best way to escape the shine trap?

Falco is all about speed and combining his shine into other attacks. So expect Falco to often begin with shine pressure which will then shift into a dair (perhaps pillaring) or SHFFLed nairs/bairs. You don't want to get caught in these so learn to react and predict your opponent. It would help to learn more about the MU so do your research.

Marth obviously has the Ken combo, so be able to spike your opponent but don't let Falco take advantage of an off-stage fight and end up getting yourself spiked. Practice this a lot as it requires very particular spacing, fairing your opponent with the correct part of your hitbox.

Marth's side b can also be used in many situations (taken from Metroid1117 post from http://smashboards.com/threads/need-a-marth-side-b-combo-guide.100596/):

FIRST HIT (Red)
Forward: a quick forward swipe, 4% damage

SECOND HIT (Green)
Forward: a quick forward poke, 4%
Up: a quick upward swipe, 4%

THIRD HIT (Blue)
Forward: a quick, good-priority, powerful forward slash, 8%
Up: a whirling, high-to-low slash, 5%
Down: a powerful downward thrust that can act as a fairly good spike in
the air or near the edge of a stage, 10%

FOURTH HIT (Red)
Forward: overhead smash, 11%
Up: overhead smash (slightly higher than the forward stroke), 8%
Down: multiple low pokes, 12% (five pokes; 3, 2, 2, 2, 3% damage
respectively)

But I'm not going to explain all of Marth's combos, just do some research and look for guides to help explain more possible combos, and try to come up with your own.

As for escaping a shine, as I said predicting your opponent and reacting will help, and this comes from experience. Use your DI to escape or sometimes an air dodge or a counter.

 

[Pure Royalty]

Don't play Marth like you would in brawl. It won't work, just cause the character is the same it's not the same play style. Grabs are good when they get close. Depending on if they can multishine try to shield the shine then grab. Learn options it of throws.
Up air chains are good on flat stages. But the great thing about melee there really aren't many guaranteed combos so it's all situational. Just work on hitting them in the right spot to allow for an easy follow up. Like don't expect a dair coming from a fair when you hit them when they are above you.
Just little things like that will improve your game a lot.
Also don't rely on up b to get out of all their combos. A lot of risk for not a lot of gain

 

[Oskurito]

Shine

Dair, Fair, Bair, Shine, I don't even know the full combo, but I know it's practically inescapable till he gets me to 50-70%. His laser game is easy, but he gets in my face, gets "inside" of me (I can't hit him off of me with any move or even Up B while he tries to shine me), and he reads Up B and Counters when I try to get him off of me. I try spacing with Fair, but he has no respect for it because he knows how to beat it.

I don't know any of Marth's combos. I pretty much play him like Brawl. I know Up Throw is a fairly successful chaingrab, but sometimes he'll get out of it. I managed to FSmash from Up throw once. And I got lucky with FThrow, dash attack, reverse FSmash. But stuff like that rarely happens since I don't actually know any of his real combos.

Don't play him like brawl. I'm a falco main, and I find marth's chaingrab and edgeguards to be pretty hard to deal with, so master those to the point were you almost never miss. When falco is offstage he's the most vulnerable because of the poor reach of his recovery. Many moves work here, d-tilt, jab, charge b, forward smash or counter if you want to stay on the edge, and if you want to chase him offstage usually fairs or up b works, also side b, and drop with bair if he is very close to the wall of the stage below the edge. To be honest, edgeguarding spaces is about good reflexes + good move choice (with the most coverage of options) and also mindgames and your ability to read.

I'm kind of a noob at chaingrabbing because I almost never get the 0 to death combos, but I know that it starts from 0 on fox and somewhere around 10% on falco, then at 35%+ uptilt and regrab is possible if you have good timing and spacing, at 55% up throw + forward smash is possible if they DI all the way to the left or right if not DI then is possible to start up air juggles or up air + regrab if the DI the up air and finish off with f-smash or maybe up B (or nair in the worst case scenario) if they went up too high. Up throw + fsmash ***** if you get the tipper at around 55%, is just brutal.

Read kadano's perfect marth class, it has lots of useful information. Specially on chaingrabs, you'll have to know when they can jump away or you should pivot grab because they can shine out. I found that the 20XX is really useful for practicing chaingrabs against spacies, the CPU almost always DIs, techs and jumps out as soon as possible, so you have to be quick or else you'll miss the combo.

 

[magister54]

Don't play him like brawl. I'm a falco main, and I find marth's chaingrab and edgeguards to be pretty hard to deal with, so master those to the point were you almost never miss. When falco is offstage he's the most vulnerable because of the poor reach of his recovery. Many moves work here, d-tilt, jab, charge b, forward smash or counter if you want to stay and the edge, and if you want chase him offstage usually fairs or up b works, also side b, and drop with bair if he is very close to the wall of the stage below the edge. To be honest, edgeguarding spaces is about good reflexes + good move choice (with the most coverage of options) and also mindgames and your ability to read.

I am also a Falco main and everything Oskurito said is true. I have a lot of trouble recovering against a Marth, even a bad player, because his disjointed hitbox (the sword) is difficult to get past with Falco's poor recovery options. Just practice spacing in regards to edge-guarding and you should get a lot of easy and relatively early kills.

Use dtilts, neutral b, fsmash, and dsmash to cover the ledge, just make sure to change it up and keep the Falco confused. Be ready to react to both Falco recoveries (side b and up b) and punish accordingly. Side b is fast and must be read very quickly, where as up b is slow and leaves Falco vulnerable for a few frames before moving and as he falls to the ground.