In numerous competition video's i've noticed different styles with Falco. The one's that i've found particularly interesting were the Falco Players who Shiny right after a SHFFL. However, I'm not sure when that combination seems to work. Is there any SHFFL move that works best combined with a Shiny right after?
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Falco's Shiny and when to do it
- Thread starter ZDEG
- Start date
When to shine? Always!
But to answer your question about dair>shine>dair (for example), this is a good way to apply damage to the enemy's shield and get a shield stab or force a roll. The shine stops them from shield grabbing you between aerials, and if they drop shield or you do get a shield stab, shine is Falco's favorite setup tool.
In general, you want to work as many shines into your combos as you can. It's free in the sense that it's instant, but you have to use it before a jump, otherwise without a jump available it's no longer instant. Plus it's not very demanding like some of Falco's other tech is.
But to answer your question about dair>shine>dair (for example), this is a good way to apply damage to the enemy's shield and get a shield stab or force a roll. The shine stops them from shield grabbing you between aerials, and if they drop shield or you do get a shield stab, shine is Falco's favorite setup tool.
In general, you want to work as many shines into your combos as you can. It's free in the sense that it's instant, but you have to use it before a jump, otherwise without a jump available it's no longer instant. Plus it's not very demanding like some of Falco's other tech is.
I would learn to not use up to jump. Move your hand a little up on the controller and use y. It's closer to b and still close to a.
Alternatively, what I've done is changed a to jump and y to attack. The only time you need the attack button for Falco is for nair and tilts and maybe a jab reset if you are fancy, or the rare charged smash. Otherwise I use the c stick. But I'm almost always jumping. Also, sliding from a to b is much easier than from y to b. The downside is that I had to spend time relearning how to play fast, and I can't play melee now, but for me that was OK.
Alternatively, what I've done is changed a to jump and y to attack. The only time you need the attack button for Falco is for nair and tilts and maybe a jab reset if you are fancy, or the rare charged smash. Otherwise I use the c stick. But I'm almost always jumping. Also, sliding from a to b is much easier than from y to b. The downside is that I had to spend time relearning how to play fast, and I can't play melee now, but for me that was OK.
See, idk if I could make that drastic of a move change.
As for the pillaring though, @ 0% I cant seem to jump high enough to hit my target. (This is the target not shielding of course) Also, if I press x harder, then it's too high. There doesn't seem to be much of any kind of middle ground
As for the pillaring though, @ 0% I cant seem to jump high enough to hit my target. (This is the target not shielding of course) Also, if I press x harder, then it's too high. There doesn't seem to be much of any kind of middle ground
Yeah, I don't really expect anyone to change their layout so drastically. Just throwing it out there.
But as far as the problem you're having: It's not really the height that's the problem, it's the speed. Against almost the whole cast, until like 40%-60%, one full jump is enough height to catch up to your victim. But you shouldn't really be chasing after them. You should be flying up pretty much with them, maybe just a little behind as they start to gain percent. What you have to do is press jump one frame (or close to it) after the shine comes out. It should just be a tiniest little "blip" then you should be in the air getting ready to read DI.
When learning any combo, I like to ensure I conceptually understand what I'm supposed to be doing. I like to use some impractical grip where I have (for this example) my index finger on b and my middle finger on jump. This way I can press them as quickly as I want and just sort of get a feel for how fast my thumb is supposed to be moving. You will find that the distance between x to b is too great to make in the required time.
I know you don't want to hear it, but this is where I highly recommend you try to re-position your hand on the controller so your thumb rests between y, b, and a: using y to jump. I initially used x for jump too, so I understand how intuitive that feels. But there is just no way to move from x over to b as fast as you are going to need to, and it makes lasers way harder than they should be. Yeah, it's hard to learn a new button, but you'll be back to yourself in a week or two and you can begin to speed up more and learn all kinds of new tech much easier.
The other thing you may consider is using tap (the grey stick) to jump. In my experience, this leads to inconsistency as soon as you start doing faster and faster tech (especially in the heat of battle, when you are trying to move around and dodge **** too). One big problem is that it's SO easy to accidentally full hop. This can literally lose you a stock if it happens at the wrong time when you meant to short hop (and by extension, lose the game). This one is an easy habit to rid yourself of. Just go turn the option for tap jump off for a while. Again, I used to use this all the time. It's pretty easy to shine>full hop with the stick, but I though about my goals and decided it's better to just relearn now before these inputs become too entrenched to change.
Take my advice with a grain of salt. There are plenty of people who encourage you to use whatever you think feels comfortable. I think it depends on what you want out of the game.
To me, it's pretty simple. The closer the buttons are together, the faster and easier I can press them. I'll be able to play faster and longer and more consistently. Personally, that was easily worth the one or two weeks of my roommates 4 stocking me because I couldn't short hop laser properly. But now I'm the one pushing the group to improve by bringing new tech to the table, and it's no sweat.
Actually, I've gone through this transition twice. I decided to switch away from tap jump/x to y. Then, a while later, I decided to do it again with that weird layout I've been using in P:M, but I could have easily just stayed with the default melee controls. The point is, if you haven't been wavedashing for 5 or 6 years using x, then now is the time to think about how you are using your controller. If you put in work, you will see results quickly. I enjoy sitting down every day for like 10 minutes and just practicing whatever cool new thing I'm trying to use. If that means for a while I'm practicing old stuff on new buttons, big deal. It's not like I'm getting paid for every shine OOS I do or something.
(Accidental wall of text)
But as far as the problem you're having: It's not really the height that's the problem, it's the speed. Against almost the whole cast, until like 40%-60%, one full jump is enough height to catch up to your victim. But you shouldn't really be chasing after them. You should be flying up pretty much with them, maybe just a little behind as they start to gain percent. What you have to do is press jump one frame (or close to it) after the shine comes out. It should just be a tiniest little "blip" then you should be in the air getting ready to read DI.
When learning any combo, I like to ensure I conceptually understand what I'm supposed to be doing. I like to use some impractical grip where I have (for this example) my index finger on b and my middle finger on jump. This way I can press them as quickly as I want and just sort of get a feel for how fast my thumb is supposed to be moving. You will find that the distance between x to b is too great to make in the required time.
I know you don't want to hear it, but this is where I highly recommend you try to re-position your hand on the controller so your thumb rests between y, b, and a: using y to jump. I initially used x for jump too, so I understand how intuitive that feels. But there is just no way to move from x over to b as fast as you are going to need to, and it makes lasers way harder than they should be. Yeah, it's hard to learn a new button, but you'll be back to yourself in a week or two and you can begin to speed up more and learn all kinds of new tech much easier.
The other thing you may consider is using tap (the grey stick) to jump. In my experience, this leads to inconsistency as soon as you start doing faster and faster tech (especially in the heat of battle, when you are trying to move around and dodge **** too). One big problem is that it's SO easy to accidentally full hop. This can literally lose you a stock if it happens at the wrong time when you meant to short hop (and by extension, lose the game). This one is an easy habit to rid yourself of. Just go turn the option for tap jump off for a while. Again, I used to use this all the time. It's pretty easy to shine>full hop with the stick, but I though about my goals and decided it's better to just relearn now before these inputs become too entrenched to change.
Take my advice with a grain of salt. There are plenty of people who encourage you to use whatever you think feels comfortable. I think it depends on what you want out of the game.
To me, it's pretty simple. The closer the buttons are together, the faster and easier I can press them. I'll be able to play faster and longer and more consistently. Personally, that was easily worth the one or two weeks of my roommates 4 stocking me because I couldn't short hop laser properly. But now I'm the one pushing the group to improve by bringing new tech to the table, and it's no sweat.
Actually, I've gone through this transition twice. I decided to switch away from tap jump/x to y. Then, a while later, I decided to do it again with that weird layout I've been using in P:M, but I could have easily just stayed with the default melee controls. The point is, if you haven't been wavedashing for 5 or 6 years using x, then now is the time to think about how you are using your controller. If you put in work, you will see results quickly. I enjoy sitting down every day for like 10 minutes and just practicing whatever cool new thing I'm trying to use. If that means for a while I'm practicing old stuff on new buttons, big deal. It's not like I'm getting paid for every shine OOS I do or something.
(Accidental wall of text)
I do see your point and it makes alot of sense. Its the way im holding the controller when I use y as my jump button. It doesnt feel very comfortable. I have no problem using y, its the fact of being uncomfortable.
Thisll deff take awhile to adjust for wavedashing
Thisll deff take awhile to adjust for wavedashing
Y-L
Smash Champion
I need some help on my shining. I've been told that if you approach with an aerial (dair/nair) you can shine before they can shield grab you. I never seem to be able to get the shine in quick enough and I get shield grabbed far too much. Is there any minute detail that I'm missing to get the earliest frame shine after an aerial? I SHFFL my aerials, it's just the timing in between landing and shining that I have trouble with. Any advice?
If they grab you out of the air, then try using a nair instead. If not, make sure you are actually getting the l-cancel. When you do a shffl in the air vs when you hit a shield vs when you hit an enemy, the timing is different since you are hitting the ground at different times.
Y-L
Smash Champion
my problem isn't doing the aerial, my problem is shining immediately after touching the ground.
Y-L
Smash Champion
I know I'm getting the L cancel from the white glow that appears when you do it successfully. What I'm asking about is getting the shine in on the correct frame to not get shield grabbed when you land.