Falco's invincible firestall options?

[AntiJIgglypuff]

I need some help regarding how to firestall with full invincibility as Falco. What I'm currently doing is upon hanging from ledge, I shine and then up b instantly after but this doesn't seem to give me full invincibility. I'm not sure if my technique is flawed or if I'm not doing it fast enough or what but if someone could help me, that would be sweet. Thanks in advance -

AntiPuff

 

[oscat]

Try this https://gfycat.com/InsignificantBriskBarracuda

 

[FE_Hector]

The above post is a pretty interesting idea. I currently just do shine upB as fast as I can, but I've realized that it has 1 or 2 frames of vulnerability, too. I think for me it's just a matter of getting finger speed a tad faster.

 

[LeadRod]

The above post is a pretty interesting idea. I currently just do shine upB as fast as I can, but I've realized that it has 1 or 2 frames of vulnerability, too. I think for me it's just a matter of getting finger speed a tad faster.

Wait like shine up-b for when trying to grab ledge or when already on the ledge?

 

[FE_Hector]

Wait like shine up-b for when trying to grab ledge or when already on the ledge?

Invincibility refresh. Shine turnaround firebird to grab ledge is quite easy for me.

 

[LeadRod]

Invincibility refresh. Shine turnaround firebird to grab ledge is quite easy for me.

Can I ask why use the shine? Doesn't it waste i-frames? Or is it because it looks swanky haha

 

[FE_Hector]

Can I ask why use the shine? Doesn't it waste i-frames? Or is it because it looks swanky haha

I'm almost sure it's capable of being perfectly invincible, so it actually doesn't matter either way. Outside of that, it's mostly because I didn't think of the rolling method that was suggested earlier. C-Stick out to upB seemed far too difficult and precise with the stick to do consistently, so I just defaulted on shine upB because it's what came to mind and I knew it could work.

 

[LeadRod]

I'm almost sure it's capable of being perfectly invincible, so it actually doesn't matter either way. Outside of that, it's mostly because I didn't think of the rolling method that was suggested earlier. C-Stick out to upB seemed far too difficult and precise with the stick to do consistently, so I just defaulted on shine upB because it's what came to mind and I knew it could work.

Fair enough. I kinda stumbled upon the rolling method. The C-stick method does seem way too convoluted though.

 

[Frenzy231199]

Firebird, Shine -> Firebird and Phantasm stall are all invincible if performed quick enough (In order of frame leniency, biggest - smallest):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pbvAksdV4E
I personally do Shine -> Firebird stall as I find it most natural, I can do the other two as well though. Note that Shine -> Firebird stall can be dangerous against projectile users as you can get locked in your shine, as projectiles are still reflected.

 

[AntiJIgglypuff]

Firebird, Shine -> Firebird and Phantasm stall are all invincible if performed quick enough (In order of frame leniency, biggest - smallest):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pbvAksdV4E
I personally do Shine -> Firebird stall as I find it most natural, I can do the other two as well though. Note that Shine -> Firebird stall can be dangerous against projectile users as you can get locked in your shine, as projectiles are still reflected.

So it is just a matter of finger speed when performing the shine-->firebird in order to maintain full invincibility?

 

[FE_Hector]

So it is just a matter of finger speed when performing the shine-->firebird in order to maintain full invincibility?

Precisely that.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Most important parts are to be at the right heights for regrabbing and to get off the ledge on the earliest possible frame.

 

[CP Adagio]

Why can't you just do jump cancel firebird and skip the shine? i.e release from ledge, double jump, firebird and then grab ledge

 

[FE_Hector]

Why can't you just do jump cancel firebird and skip the shine? i.e release from ledge, double jump, firebird and then grab ledge

The shine keeps you in place so that when you do dj firebird you're not guessing about timing or worrying about anything.

 

[CP Adagio]

The shine keeps you in place so that when you do dj firebird you're not guessing about timing or worrying about anything.

Could you theoretically get consistent enough without the shine to just not use it when firestalling?

 

[FE_Hector]

Could you theoretically get consistent enough without the shine to just not use it when firestalling?

Theoretically I suppose it's possible, but if you really don't wanna shine then you should probably just do the rolling method mentioned above.

 

[Audos]

In the end the concept that you will be inconsistent is unavoidable. If you choose the rolling method, you will grab ledge at different times depending on how you time your b inputs, making you regrab early or late and changing when you would let go of ledge optimally. The thing is that while, yes, the rolling method gives different timings, so does the shine method. If you were completely consistent with the rolling method you would grab ledge the same timing. If you are completely consistent with shine method you will grab at the same time, but that is also near impossible. How many frames you leave between the ledge release, shine, dj, and up-b are also going to be inconsistent. You won't get the perfect frames every time.

I prefer the rolling method because it allows me to react, where as the shine method really doesn't. If I'm drifting a frame or two away I can visually see it easier and try to adjust my timing. It's not perfect by any means but there is no actual perfect method. Just practice it a ton.