Falcos Grabs CAN be effective.

[InfiniteGXT]

Laterly I have seen pros like Forward using the grab a whole lot more than I used to. I have started using the grab in my game a bit more, and despite its lack of range it really can help your game. Falco's entire game is set up around comboing when given the chance. You dont just run up to someone competent and start comboing them. You can however, grab them and hit them in any direction which can set up into a combo. Especially on platform stages where falcos platform game is meant to be abused. Jabbing or SHLing into a JC grab is the best way Ive seen. Its also standard so thats not a big surprise.

This is probably already known, but I just wanted to make a topic about how falcos grabs should be used more. I may put up videos in a little while.

In this video(B-Will vs V3ctor) they both rely moderately on grabs throughout the entire match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_KQs7j7Wuo

This is the absolutely most perfect match to describe what exactly Im talking about. Forward pulls of the 3-4 most well put grabs I have seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA35Okf7ueg

This old video of Fox128 shows some more basic grab combo variations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjA5L9sIQT8

Grab combos at 0:25, 1:55, 2:16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5nOvv8gI7U

 

[K.C. Cloud]

I've been saying this for a little while that Falco players need to grab more and Infinite I aggree with you.

Here's two matches against a Fox player where grabs were abused somewhat but in different ways. Trying not to make the same grab approach to often.

Lcanceled arield into grabs are also good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oNttTQ7X-yU&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gsj56tr1wd0

Most recent ones which are unfortunately a month old, but grabs were used pretty well during these matches and since implementing into my game, the grab placing has gotten better.

 

[mathos]

Falco's grabs suck. I watched 3 of those vids and only saw approximately 5 combos from grabs. Yes a grab can knock someone off the edge, but that becomes edgeguarding after that point. Falco's grab combos are really grab + 1 hit combos. Everything else involved a mindgame.

 

[Ryan-K]

Who the **** cares about comboing its a free hit falco probably has one of the easiest times of getting a grab in the game out of all the characters.

 

[forward]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=F7oNu7eb6Yo
At :30 seconds I think is one of Falco's best grab set ups, I don't see people use it much though.

You have to grab as Falco. Otherwise people camp their shield all day and unless you are DSW you're going to **** up if you try and break it. So you are left with two options, try to predict how they leave their shield and attack them then, or just throw them as they put it up.

I think in this scenario it is better to just go with a throw. For one thing it is easier to predict one shield than one of the 5 or so options they have to leave a shield. Also, it may not do the most damage possible but it will slowly build up damage, and slowly scare them away from shielding. Once you get them panicking and moving around a little more it will be easier to land a deadly hit.

 

[InfiniteGXT]

Falcos grabs DO suck, but they can be made useful if you utilize his other abilities.

 

[mog112]

yes falcos grabs are not that great, but because of lasers falcos grabs are often easier to get than anyone else.
if you know their going to have their shield up, why not grab them? you are just getting to add damage without getting hit.

 

[invertigo]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=F7oNu7eb6Yo
At :30 seconds I think is one of Falco's best grab set ups, I don't see people use it much though.

You have to grab as Falco. Otherwise people camp their shield all day and unless you are DSW you're going to **** up if you try and break it. So you are left with two options, try to predict how they leave their shield and attack them then, or just throw them as they put it up.

I think in this scenario it is better to just go with a throw. For one thing it is easier to predict one shield than one of the 5 or so options they have to leave a shield. Also, it may not do the most damage possible but it will slowly build up damage, and slowly scare them away from shielding. Once you get them panicking and moving around a little more it will be easier to land a deadly hit.

but what if something like 2:52 happens?

 

[forward]

Than you need better spacing!

 

[invertigo]

<3 forward lol.

but yeah ive played lunin and youre seriously awesome. that guy's tech skill is insane, busting infinites left and right haha.

 

[Velox]

Down throw to forward 'B' *****!

 

[K.C. Cloud]

Down throw to forward 'B' *****!

Not that you can't use that, but this did make me laugh somewhat.

Use it at your own Discretion is all I have to say.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i was at the touney that B-will and vector did that MM but i left as they were setting up for it haha. they're both amazing.


and for the record grabs with falco are good to throw into the mix.

 

[Insane-Contrast]

Well that's a suprize. I only grab a few times during matches. Too risky for me.

 

[Glowfisch]

your right about falcos grabs they are not as useful as those from other chars but still I love to Spam JC grab in to D smash ore start to wave shine
but to bad that its possible to teg out of it :S

but still I love to Spam grab’s its so funny to se how a nice combo is getting killed

I’m still looking for a good grab combo

 

[LieutenantSerg]

Falcos grabs DO suck, but they can be made useful if you utilize his other abilities.

Yeah thats very true, grabs can be used as mindgames with falco too since not many people do it lol. as for grabs to combos thats just up to how well you can predict your opponet.

 

[Adi]

Grabs do not set up combos or do decent damage, however they are one of falco's most vital abilities. Why? Because Falco relies heavily on an aggressive gameplay. If an opponent manages to stop the momentum of Falco he usually gets screwed because he doesn't have the best defensive options from escaping combos. The best way an opponent can do this is to shield grab, which happens to new falco players so much because they believe that their only option for falco relies on hard hitting combos. DaShizWiz vs. Forward set is a good example of that, and although by no means is DaShizWiz a bad falco player, he just simply didn't utilize all his offensive options to put him ahead of Forward. Throws allow you to widely increase your offensive capabilities and reduce the defensive capabilities of your opponent. As Forward said an opponent who's less likely to shield is more likely to get hit by a dair shine combo to the face.

My favorite application of the throw is d-air - shine - JC grab. Although this could be substititued for a pillar, many characters can often roll out of it far enough to regain their compusure before you follow it up or they can grab you if you're not fast enough. Most players expect you to pillar as well, so they'll hold their shield up giving you a perfect position to grab them. It's hard to pull off but works fairly well most of the time.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Falco's grab gaming sucks because of lack of range and too slow to be effective dashing speed, however there still is SHL + grab as an approach option, which if timed correctly doesn't even allow the opponent to sidestep it because of the stun lag on the shield (yes, lasers give stun lag). Never forget that every Falco opponent expects Falco to aerial approach on his shield. As a consequence, schemes involving fake our tricks followed by grabs are often very effective.

I don't really like Shinegrab because you need an aerial approach to set it, which makes it way less unpredictable than stuff like waveland + grab approachs or even better empty shffl + grab approachs. Yes, it sounds silly but consider that 90% of your opponents when will notice a Falco short hopping towards them will immediatly raise their shields and prepare for an aerial. Instead you'll just fastfall into nothing and pull out an unexpected, flashy grab. Remember that eventhough your opponent has no stun on his shield, you are free from lag problems as well because you'll land without doing any aerial.

 

[Glowfisch]

Aldwyn great idea I try it to add it in my game
but I love to grab ^^ and 1 of my favourites is the shield grab .

your right new players only concentrate on massive damage combo’s
thinking what your doing and finding an opening to counter there moves is very effective to kill those players.

To bad that I don’t have an opportunity to play a against really good ssbm players :S

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

holland is small and there are a lot of players.. maybe you can ask some of them to visit you

speaking of follow ups to grabs well... if an opponent has got high % the best choice is throwing them towards the nearest edge and trying to intercept them with a spike.

Otherwise Up throw usually works better and I find that following it with a shine + Dair isn't that hard. On fastfallers I suggest to begin a back throw or down throw chaingrab and suddendly interrupt it following with an up throw. This will probably screw their DI.

 

[Glowfisch]

eehm.. yeah Holand is small and i play against a lot of players but they are not realy at a hige lv
they are so easy to beat they force me to pleay at a lower lv otherwise its no fun playing against me
still trying to recrute some new players..

i like grabing up in to u air ore using shine + dair ore wave shine in to d air ..
but stil i hate it wen i get shield grabed but dair in to duble shine realy help

wat do u use to counter shield grabs?.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

I often have problems with shielding opponents. I seem to have found an efficient solution to this: search for it in the "I need tips" thread.

 

[Glowfisch]

I can deal very well with opponents that like to shield Spam
just start some nice double shine moves so they can't use shield grab and have to doge out of it
but I hate it when they spot doge u have to time the second shine so that it will hit your opponent before he can counter

but adding some more move so u can be more unpredictable is the thing I’m dealing with
adding new moves to my game is all I’m doing the last few years

 

[LaserBust]

Yea multi-shining looks good vs. t3h shield but i haven't really gotten it yet =[. Not by using Y anyway.. Ahh, and while on the grabbing subject, wut was that about Falco's downthrow being a spike? I saw it somewhere, lol.

 

[Glowfisch]

d smash is not a spike move when u ask me but when u di wrong u and below the stage what makes it almost in possible to recover at hige %

 

[mathos]

dsmash doesn't spike. . . . .ever.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

instead it does XD

a particular glitch occurred right before writing this post and had me spiking an opponent using Dsmash. 45° trajectory and impossibility to recover. It can happen with every move, it happened to me with Sheik's ANA, Falco's ABA, Marth's Fsmash and Falco's Dsmash so far.

 

[Aether_Lord]

Falcos grabs are sloooooooooow.. Low priority and low range. sure its good if you Down grab and utilt but thats rare if you got them in a utilt combo.

 

[Glowfisch]

yeah I agree with that but folco with out grabbing ... eehm... i don't really like that

the utilt combo never works on good players its so easy to teg out of it

 

[UCbizerkeley]

It's silly to ignore Falco's grabs, if nothing else, they help control the flow of the game

 

[Glowfisch]

i agree with that

 

[Ryan-K]

. Low priority and low range.

All grabs have the same priority ._.

 

[LieutenantSerg]

Yea multi-shining looks good vs. t3h shield but i haven't really gotten it yet =[. Not by using Y anyway.. Ahh, and while on the grabbing subject, wut was that about Falco's downthrow being a spike? I saw it somewhere, lol.

His Dthrow can spike although it is really hard to do. Ive done it a couple of times by accident lol. I think your opponet has to be like off the edge when you grab him to do it but im not sure. Its pretty cool when you do it though

 

[LaserBust]

His Dthrow can spike although it is really hard to do. Ive done it a couple of times by accident lol. I think your opponet has to be like off the edge when you grab him to do it but im not sure. Its pretty cool when you do it though

Mhmm.. I vaguely remember seeing it in a vid once.. Or mayb i was tired, haha.

 

[Combo Artist]

alot of the time i grab my opponent and then shine straight after

 

[LaserBust]

Yea It usualy only works on computers though, most players just tech roll after the initial throw.

 

[Glowfisch]

yes d grab can spike .. but u need to grab your opponent and hold him over the edge

then throw down he will get spiked but if one of ur lasers hit the spike can be cancelled
so its not a very useful move

 

[mathos]

For the Dthrow the person also has to not DI for it to work. So its not reliable.

 

[LaserBust]

Well that sucks. Good info to know though, I guess.

 

[Mr.Lombardi KnockOuT]

Can someone tell me how to put pctures in your comments plz