Falco vs Link

[xXSciophobiaXx]

If this is better suited to another thread that I didn't find, than I am more than happy to take the discussion there.

So i've been playing falco for a while now, and I'd prefer to preface this thread with a statement of my quality as a falco player. I've only started playing falco for like 2-3 months. However, I have played smash for so long that I've had many light-bulb moments with falco where I understand why he is so prominent in melee(never played him in melee, wish I did). I can consistently wave shine, shine OoS, pillar, and SHFFL-waveshine or SHFFL-shine-SHFFL etc etc. I am consistent at hitting double shine on aerial opponents, but I rarely double shine effectively on the ground, or shine grab, which both are things Im working on. My laser pressure is very solid (probably the best part of my game), I am quite proud of it (lol), I mixup retreating lasers with laser-dash-jump-cancel-grab, or dive-in "safe" aerial pressure.

The reason I state this, is because I don't feel like I have any technical issues playing falco. I don't want to claim I am unreal, but for the most part, the best parts of my falco gameplay look somewhat like what you'd see at Xanadu or something comparable.

Now to the topic, Link. I do not understand this matchup quite like other match ups. In other match ups, i become the blood falco, and force opposing players mercilessly to play my game. Yet against link, my laser pressure and establishment of that all to familiar neutral game never seems to materialize. Link always feels just close enough to threaten with a boomerang and follow up devastatingly. Once I am hit, I attempt to combo-DI, but I am usually dead pretty quickly.

So I ask, what are the effective nuances that you guys know specifically for this matchup? Because I feel the matchup is lost for me in the decision making rather than the technicality.

IE, I've noticed that as falco you can pillar link once at low percent, the second dair will hit, but link will be able to Nair you before you can land-shine. Event progression--> Shine-jump-dair-fastfall, shine-jump, DJ, Dair-fastfall **link nairs** and hits falco. So i've been hitting the second dair and moving away from link, attempting to bait the nair and either return to laser-game or dive in for safe pressure again.

Also, edge guarding, when I get link off stage, I am not capitalizing as much as I should. Usually I rush the edge, noodle to hog, or RAR and grab the edge. I attempt to refresh invincibility such that it coincides when link will have to up-B ( my opponent doesn't AGT super well or bomb-jump so I don't have to adjust to mixups that much). When I see him up-B, i drop, jump-bair to smash that little elf as far as I can. This works on occasion, but I was wondering if anybody else has a more effective approach to edge guarding.

Escaping damage: This is a big one. Once grabbed (which might happen on occasion) a downthrow usually pops me up enough for things like: Utilt/Usmash->dashattack-->uair/fair. Typically I try do DI to the side as most characters will murder spacies with endless juggles until you can get to a platform or away horizontally. Is this the correct way to deal with link specifically? I am also attempting to smashDI much more regularly, this can get me out of upsmash or bair on occasion which is good.

I can't think of any more things for now. Chances are I will need to post a video to get proper criticism, but I wanted to at least get the discussion rolling.

Thanks for your time smashbros.

 

[G@me!(Get_At_Me!)]

From my little experience of project m link mains in tournaments I would suggest this:

• do not allow link any room to throw any type of projectile. so opt for tech chases with grabs and laser pressure into grabs
• stay away from his boomerang max range when forced in neutral if possible. so camp out a bit with lasers
• learn to incorporate max distance dash-cancelled-pivot grabs (brawl technique) after a laser
• when combo'ing link opt for moving him across a stage opposed to vertical juggling. it really messes with link feeling helpless across a stage for some reason. This is just opinion from using link before moving onto falco in my competitive career. and the reason link is able to throw out the nair is due to him likely predicting your consecutive dair attempt. He likely smash di's hard to one side to avoid you and then quickly nair.
• in general just tell yourself to have more caution if you are getting combo'ed hard because falco may throw out combos but he is a glass cannon
• link's grab is so garbage if it misses. so try shield pressure with shffled aerials then retreating with DD's seeing if they attempt to shield grab.

 

[Arcalyth]

You seem to be an intelligent, player who is aware of his game. You're on the right track in the analization of your play. If you read what you said, you actually can solve most of your own problem by answering your own questions. But here are some things to get your brain moving...

The Link MU is all about knowing how to deal with Boomerang. If you can't, Link wins. You can clank out his boomerang (which is not always the best option, but is a possibility and is the best option in some situations) with an aerial or tilt/dash attack. If you feel like he's just always in range for the boomerang even though you're applying laser pressure, then vary your laser timing/spacing by including dash dances and empty SH>wavelands. When you SH, your opponent is usually expecting a nair/dair or laser, and/or they're waiting for you to land so they can punish. Wavelanding escapes those punishes and also makes your nair/dair/laser less predictable. Dash dancing makes your approach/retreat timing less predictable. Attacks apply pressure, grabs instill fear (if you punish off of them properly). Spacing out his boomerang is effective but forces you to play Link's game, so you have to know when to go in and when to let him feel safe. If you outspace his boomerang while also applying laser pressure, and he continues to use boomerang (bad for him because you just learned how to beat it), then you'll start building frame advantage via laser. The better the Link player is, the faster he'll switch from boomerang to something more effective for the situation. But this is how to beat it at the baseline.

Link might start using his Hylian Shield against your lasers. You can poke under it with a very low laser (try to hit a crouching Kirby or missed tech from any character) or try to pressure him into running away (walking still activates the Hylian Shield, so he might walk toward you while you spam lasers... bad.)

Your introduction makes me think you have a decent understanding of Falco punishes so I don't have to say "go for punishes out of these opportunities I'm trying to help you find." But I guess I just did

Once you're in, you're in, until you have to beat his projectiles again. You can't go in too hard, though, because he still has a sword and a long-range, fast grab (bait it and punish the endlag).

Use ledge invincibility to get free dunks. Or shine>dair, or try to force him high so you get a free dunk.

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

Thanks guys for the input. I appreciate it.

Although i stated I feel confident with my tech skill, and in general I do perform quite extensive pillars and other combos. Im noticing that the few times I drop the inputs I want, they end up costing me significantly. I feel that I am quite anti-clutch, especially in this matchup. As consistent as I am, Im starting to feel that you can never be too consistent as falco. Its those missed wave shines or missed tech reads that when miss-input cost you stocks and ultimately games. This is especially true of link, where most missteps lead to significant combos or knock-off-edge --> then falco is dead edge guards.

I guess in summary I'm finding out theres things specific about each matchup to consider, but things about playing with a never-make-a-mistake mindset that are highly valuable.

 

[Arcalyth]

Know when to back off a little. It will help you make fewer mistakes and give your opponent room to make more.