Falco & proper Jump-cancelling for waveshining/multishining

[uGuize]

Hey guys,

Finally created a smashboard account, so glad to meet y'all. I'm just looking for any references or suggestions on Falco's multishining - specifically in jump-cancelling.

I know the frame data around it and understand that overall Falco mains are supposed to use X/Y and B in correct timing to jump cancel the shines, but I ran into a problem.

Basically I realized that I picked up a weird (and probably bad?) habit of jump cancelling my shines using the analog control stick. I think it was a long time ago from watching Westballz or PPMD perform the Sakurai Shine Combo ( a shine -> jump to platform -> shine -> full jump shine -> firebird) to finish off their sets in style. Being the eager rookie Falco that I am, I figured out I could just do this by using only the analog stick to get the full jump AND jump cancel the shine.

Since I've been trying to practice waveshining/multishining with Falco recently I realize that my fingers keep trying to jump cancel by using the analog stick instead of the X/Y buttons.

Has anyone else run into this issue, and if so what methods did you guys use to break the habit? I feel like it's a huge roadblock to improving my Falco especially in shield-pressuring situations. I get that I should probably just continue drilling myself to use X/Y for jump-cancelling so if that's the only solution then I guess I just wanted to vent for my first post.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Yeah, I don't really see any other way to break that kind of habit.
Maybe during tech practice sessions try focusing on not using the analog for shine cancelling as well as in actual matches.
I guess this is a lesson to learn the basics before going into the more complex stuff. You'll get it down eventually.

 

[C-SAF]

I actually know a very technical fox main from northern Ontario that uses the control stick to jump. He is one of the best players in Sudbury and has no problem multishining or preforming any other tech. He has taken games off players like none, so its not impossible to become quite proficient using the control stick. If I remember correctly, I think it was lovage that specifically used tap jump to multishine because it was easier.

That said I would never do it that way lol. Learning with X/Y is probably ur best option.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

That is true, if there's a will there's a way.
Adapting something like that into your play is possible.

 

[MordhauDerk]

Try practicing on the 20xx pack. You can disable tap-jump through the debug mode. However, I wouldn't recommend always training with tap-jump off, because it could (theoretically) lead to sloppy uTilts and up-airs if you play vanilla Melee at a later time.

 

[uGuize]

Try practicing on the 20xx pack. You can disable tap-jump through the debug mode. However, I wouldn't recommend always training with tap-jump off, because it could (theoretically) lead to sloppy uTilts and up-airs if you play vanilla Melee at a later time.

I'm trying to imagine the sequence of events that might cause that to happen but I'm a little lost on how I could potentially and accidentally throw out uTilts or uAirs with this method. Could you elaborate a little more please?

 

[uGuize]

It's funny - since I made this post I've accidentally pulled off a few small sets of perfect multishines with the analog stick, but at the same time I've been slowly getting momentum behind using X/B for waveshining, and X/Y for multishining. Anyone have a preference behind using X/B or X/Y?

 

[GenNyan]

I'm trying to imagine the sequence of events that might cause that to happen but I'm a little lost on how I could potentially and accidentally throw out uTilts or uAirs with this method. Could you elaborate a little more please?

Well, when you turn tap jump back off (It is always off in tournaments), you might accidentally jump instead of Utilt if you move the stick up too quickly.

 

[C-SAF]

It's funny - since I made this post I've accidentally pulled off a few small sets of perfect multishines with the analog stick, but at the same time I've been slowly getting momentum behind using X/B for waveshining, and X/Y for multishining. Anyone have a preference behind using X/B or X/Y?

The way u describe being able to multishine with the analog stick shows its more important to improve ur dexterity than to actually use any specific button scheme. I wouldn't get hung up on what buttons to use, its more important to just practice a lot.

(I also would practice something more useful than multishining, its very niche in use)

 

[MordhauDerk]

I'm trying to imagine the sequence of events that might cause that to happen but I'm a little lost on how I could potentially and accidentally throw out uTilts or uAirs with this method. Could you elaborate a little more please?

If you get used to playing the game (in general) with tap-jump off you may got used to it no being there. I used to play PM with tap-jump OFF and when I switched to Melee I couldn't do a quick up-tilt to same my life.

 

[Klemes]

It's funny - since I made this post I've accidentally pulled off a few small sets of perfect multishines with the analog stick, but at the same time I've been slowly getting momentum behind using X/B for waveshining, and X/Y for multishining. Anyone have a preference behind using X/B or X/Y?

Hi. I use Y to jump since forever. However I discovered it's way easier and more reliable for me to use X for any Jump-Cancel shine stuff (double shines>WD down and shine OoS). It feels easy to slide on >> in a single, quick motion. Muscle-memory should make it perfect after a while.

To answer to when you should use tap-jump (analog stick jump) : never on the ground, to start with. You will want your analog free to input precise directions and timings (DD WD SHFFL all require tight control to space them right), and you always want to control whether you want to FH or SH (for SHL !), which is far easier with X/Y. [just re-read your first post and I realized I went a bit off-topic. sry]

However it's fine to DJ out of shine (mid-air) with tap-jump for multiple things :

- shine>bair >> (far quicker than using X/Y)
- shine-turnaround>firestall >>>

-or like you said, to shine>up-b off the top.

Hope this helps, do ask if you want precisions or wonder about an abreviation.