falco help

[WITH]

Has anyone else had a problem with falco's chainthrow - spike - footstool combo?

I dunno if its that common, but I run into it a lot against a falco player I play with and it feels like an unescapable death to me. It only works at low % when u cant escape the chaingrab, but he chains you to the edge, spikes, you meteor cancel, he footstools u to ur death.

Also, if I wait a little longer to avoid the footstool (which I do successfully with DK, but Bowser doesn't get enough height), he double jumps up and edgehogs me to death.

My only way of avoiding it is staying on platforms untill around 40-50%, but if theres a better way to get out of it I'd love to know.

 

[iDizZzY]

well, as a falco main, i find pretty much every bowser easy, due to the chainspike u just mentioned. Bowser does not get enough hit to recover, and he is just easy to pound on with falco.
although, with some testing, i have seen that a perfect meteor cancel will lead to a recovery, due to it being to fast for the footstool to hit (falco is still in dair animation) but you will usually get hit again when u land on the level due to the up B lag. and even if the chain spike doesnt work, falco easily racks up damage on bowser, and since he is so big, falco players can easily connect with a majority of his kill moves. my advice, dont go bowser against falcos

 

[DiasFlac]

Yeah after about 50% Falco can't chainthrow you anymore which is a good thing. Just keep in mind that once your at 50% your free of CG's.

Use ftilt and fairs to keep your space along with Firebreath. Falco can Down out of Firebreath but your get more damage off them then he does off you before he can get out of it.

I wish I could explain better but I'm kinda bad at these things and I don't have a video of me playing a good Falco.

Just try to use quick attacks and don't use any attacks that leave you open for a while (like Down B) You can gimp his recovery if your quick enough to get to the edge after you hit him their.

If your not good with perfect shielding then get better at it so you can learn to perfect shield pass his short hop lasors. It comes in handy for a large number of reasons.

Good Luck!

 

[WITH]

Thanks for the advice...i know its not good to play bowser vs. falco, but i like to practice in case people counter pick me, plus i dont wanna be counterpicking my friend ever match in friendlies either.

I think i will try to perfect the meteor with up + B...what i had been doing is meteoring with jump out of fear that up + B wouldnt make it high enough to the ledge.

Also, the perfect shielding is probably something i should be practicing...i am decent with it, but i think out of laziness i hadn't been getting better with it...thanks for reminding me that it is a worthwhile skill, and it will certainly be worth the occasional damage while practicing in the long run to perfect it

 

[DiasFlac]

Thanks for the advice...i know its not good to play bowser vs. falco, but i like to practice in case people counter pick me, plus i dont wanna be counterpicking my friend ever match in friendlies either.

I think i will try to perfect the meteor with up + B...what i had been doing is meteoring with jump out of fear that up + B wouldnt make it high enough to the ledge.

Also, the perfect shielding is probably something i should be practicing...i am decent with it, but i think out of laziness i hadn't been getting better with it...thanks for reminding me that it is a worthwhile skill, and it will certainly be worth the occasional damage while practicing in the long run to perfect it

Yeah I've lost a lot of matches trying to get used to it but now I'm actually to the point where I can perfect shield Wolfs lasors to the point I can ftilt him. I'm not perfect with it but against certain match ups like Mario,Pikachu, Luigi, ZSS,Samus and others I find myself winning much easier thanks to it.

Once your good enough to know you can use it in that way. Your find yourself coming across a Bowser vs Pikachu match up and knowing what you need to do to win the match.

Now without perfect shielding your find yourself trying to jump over the thundershocks or rolling around them which puts you in a spot to be punish by the user since he's expecting it. Going right up the middle is safer and it makes it so you can punish him much much easier.

After perfect shielding your next attack comes out faster so you can punish the user for almost w/e he did. Which is why its also considered a Counter Attack.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

perfect shielding is vital to learn against wolf, most others you can ftilt your way through but with wolf you gotta learn it and if you learn it with him then, as Dias said, it'll pretty much benefite in you in all other projectile matches.

 

[Albericht]

I dont know how you can be chaingrabbed by falco. Bowser is one of the few characters that is practically immune to chaingrabs, even DDD's which is the worst of them all. The simple solution is whirling fortress. Ive tried that against DDDs and falcos on Wi-Fi and they cant even chain a second grab. Must be becuz of button lag, but theoretically whirling fortress is fast enough to cancel their cheap stunt.

 

[JrdnS]

I dont know how you can be chaingrabbed by falco. Bowser is one of the few characters that is practically immune to chaingrabs, even DDD's which is the worst of them all. The simple solution is whirling fortress. Ive tried that against DDDs and falcos on Wi-Fi and they cant even chain a second grab. Must be becuz of button lag, but theoretically whirling fortress is fast enough to cancel their cheap stunt.

falcos chaingrab is a down throw. and it only works on some characters. im not sure if its unescapable for bowser. maybe it is and youre not DIing properly. idk. but choosing bowser against falco is a bad choice anyways. according to statistics bowser will win 20% of the time if both players are at the same level.

 

[WITH]

I havent tried fortress to get out, but i was lead to believe the only way to escape is to DI up+away and mash jump. This tactic only works at around 40-50% or higher, though, unless the falco screws up. Wifi is not a good way to determine how easy is is to escape since the falco will lag and not execute the chain throw well enough.

But seriously, have you guys ran into the spike-footstool combo i am talking about against falco?

 

[Albericht]

Yeah, I have experienced it once. But if you stop his chaingrab then youve pretty much prevented that. Unless of course he grabbed you by the edge and then spiked you. Since I havent come across it so often I wouldnt really know how to counter. Try whirling fortress, it should cancel the spike... its a wild guess but if it works for the chaingrab why wont it work against the spike?

 

[Tristan Fattest of All Kids]

Aw dang. I can totally relate to this. I lost against a n00b Falco on FD.

My advice: No flat stages or ones with walls. That laser is just too dang annoying.

 

[eMORAY21]

It's because he is massive. I main Falco/TL and both chars have an easy time with Bowser

 

[gantrain05]

It's because he is massive. I main Falco/TL and both chars have an easy time with Bowser

really? i don't ever really have much trouble vs toon link, different tactics i guess, Tlink just dies to easy for me.

 

[shockfrost]

Has anyone else had a problem with falco's chainthrow - spike - footstool combo?

I dunno if its that common, but I run into it a lot against a falco player I play with and it feels like an unescapable death to me. It only works at low % when u cant escape the chaingrab, but he chains you to the edge, spikes, you meteor cancel, he footstools u to ur death.

Also, if I wait a little longer to avoid the footstool (which I do successfully with DK, but Bowser doesn't get enough height), he double jumps up and edgehogs me to death.

My only way of avoiding it is staying on platforms untill around 40-50%, but if theres a better way to get out of it I'd love to know.

Falco is a fairly neutral match to Bowser. He is much lighter than you, so it won't take much.
Unfortunately, Falco has a lot of vertical velocity. He falls ... very fast. Airspeed is one of Bowser's quiet advantages, and getting aced here will take away SOME of your ability to attack... that is, SOME... but...


However, Bowser can move faster than him horizontally. This is the part you are overlooking. Bowser's horizontal footspeed is close to, but a touch faster than, Falco's.
And his aerial horizontal speed is ALSO faster than Falco's.

Use this common, significant oversight to find a way to break your opponent's game with Falco. You can't keep him above or below you, but you can restrict him to a certain SIDE of you. Remember you can use your own up-and-down game to slip around his projectiles and get in close, or get a little distance and warm up his beak with a bit of flame.

Use horizontal motion to keep Falco from controlling the encounter.

 

[Sanzi]

play iceclimbers and chain their ***

 

[ElectroBlooper]

Falco is a fairly neutral match to Bowser.

I'm sorry Shockfrost, but Bowser vs Falco is anything but even. Falco's laser camps the hell out of Bowser so you have to approach. That isn't easy due to the fact that Bowser isn't a great jumper and Falco can punish any aerial approach you try pretty brutally, especially since Bowser doesn't really have any options for attacking opponents below him. Falco's attack speed is much faster than Bowser's and he hits pretty hard. I think his reflector screws up your flame breath pretty bad too, in case things weren't bad enough. As is usually the case for Bowser, stage selection makes a big difference in this matchup. I like Smashville because it's small and the platform can be used to keep Falco from camping too much (if it's there). I guess Battlefield could work pretty well too - just use the platforms to keep him from camping and wait for him to either approach you or jump onto a platform, which should give you an opening. Ride his *** through as much as possible with your faster moves because if you fight the match on his terms, you're going to lose. The worst part about fighting Falco, though, is the CG to spike.

I dont know how you can be chaingrabbed by falco. Bowser is one of the few characters that is practically immune to chaingrabs, even DDD's which is the worst of them all.

Bowser is definitely not immune to CGs. I'm pretty sure fortress will not interrupt Falco's CG (wifi doesn't count). As for DDD's CG, not only is Bowser not immune to it, but he is one of the 5 lucky characters that DDD has an infinite CG against. If you're facing a half decent DDD it's pretty much gg. Same with Falco to be honest - the above analysis, as pessimistic as it was, doesn't even take into account the fact that Falco can just CG spike you to death for an easy win.