Falco Help (The official thread turned into a joke)

[MOJoe]

I need some help/advice on my Falco. I've only been playing for 4 months now, so I know my tech skill isn't the best and the first game of this set, I had cold hands johns because I had just gotten back from our dinner break at the tourney. I did already notice that my OoS game is poor and my recoveries are exTREMEly predictable, but any other additional help would be appreciated greatly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTM3sH7vAuo&list=UUNSav2dc0h2tvw5FfZXFS5Q&index=22

 

[SUNG666]

Oops someone used my account please delete this post

 

[Ziodyne]

Work on some additional ledge options. LHDL, WD from ledge are both in general more reliable tools than Side-B from ledge. Keep side-b as a mixup at best. Note that Falco's "normal" getup options can also work in terms of mixups, just look for how your opponent is positioning themselves to ledgeguard.

 

[MOJoe]

Work on some additional ledge options. LHDL, WD from ledge are both in general more reliable tools than Side-B from ledge. Keep side-b as a mixup at best. Note that Falco's "normal" getup options can also work in terms of mixups, just look for how your opponent is positioning themselves to ledgeguard.

Thank you. I"ve started using WD from ledge, but I always forget about my lhdl.

 

[Squirt]

Not bad for only 4 months man, and that yoshi seemed like he knew what he was doing. I'd say specifically for the yoshi matchup, capitalize on shield pressure, yoshi has crap for options when in shield, he can roll and that's like it. I don't even think he can even jump. So mix in shinegrab. Speaking of grabs I didn't say any. There are a lot of times where you can get a guaranteed grab in. You don't have to approach him on the edge, you could just as easily go to the opposite side of the stage and spam lasers.

I'd say get better at platforming and moving around in general, work in some grabs, work on laser spacing.

 

[MOJoe]

Not bad for only 4 months man, and that yoshi seemed like he knew what he was doing. I'd say specifically for the yoshi matchup, capitalize on shield pressure, yoshi has crap for options when in shield, he can roll and that's like it. I don't even think he can even jump. So mix in shinegrab. Speaking of grabs I didn't say any. There are a lot of times where you can get a guaranteed grab in. You don't have to approach him on the edge, you could just as easily go to the opposite side of the stage and spam lasers.

I'd say get better at platforming and moving around in general, work in some grabs, work on laser spacing.

Thank you very much. And yeah. That yoshi player went to Apex 2012-ish. His main is actually Marth, but he plays yoshi in teams and sometimes singles. Grab game is definitely something I need to work on though. You are right about how Yoshi can't jump OoS though. And thanks again.

 

[JKJ]

Ok, so it appears that aside from the obvious play more, put more time in, and you will get better at your decisionmaking skills and such
You have two major problems.
1. You don't know when your moves end.
This means that you input new actions before the prior action has ended, and therefore one or more of your inputs doesn't register. This happens multiple times in the video, most notably when you Uptilt>Downsmash>Standing Laser in the first game, on the right platform, about a minute into the game. I assume you meant to uptilt, downair, fullhop or shorthop laser, but you input the jump for the dair before the uptilt's lag had ended, and then the dair input came out as a dsmash, and then you input the jump for the laser before the dsmash ended, so you standing laser instead.
Nothing can substitute for learning the timing for the lag of all your moves.
2. You hesitate too much.
This comes with time, but right now you have many situations which play out like this: You get your opponent in a disadvantageous position, like their shield, or on the ledge, and then you hesitate, and think what to do, but by the time you do it, the opponent is free from hitstun and counterattacks you. You let the opponent escape disadvantageous positions without penalty. Work on this for sure. Go in to your advantageous positions with a plan. Know what you are going to do when you see the opportunity for a positional advantage. Go in the the shield pressure situation knowing that you are going to dair>shinegrab, or bair>shine>bair>shine pressure and punish a possible roll with fsmash. Going in without a plan is just as dangerous as running straight at the opponent in neutral.
In short, have a game plan when you enter the situation.

Otherwise, very good stuff for a player of 4 months, keep on improving! Hope to see you around the boards more!

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

couple questions
what tier is yoshi cuz ive seen multiple yoshis **** spacies and falcon
so why is yoshi not Atier

and what is auto canceling
i want to auto cancel arials with falco but what the hell is that

 

[BTmoney]

couple questions
what tier is yoshi cuz ive seen multiple yoshis **** spacies and falcon
so why is yoshi not Atier

and what is auto canceling
i want to auto cancel arials with falco but what the hell is that

auto cancel is an aerial that...automatically cancels [lol] its landling lag. The only things that AC in melee are aerials that end naturally before they hit the ground. For example, a SH marth fair and nair auto cancels because the full animation plays out before he hits the ground. I believe Falco's full hop bair auto cancels which is actually kind of useful but that's it.
Auto canceling is much more important in Brawl because landing lag is more of an issue since you can't normally cancel it and more things auto cancel in Brawl because of the lesser gravity (so the animation can play out before you hit the ground).


And because yoshi is extremely flawed. Every character in the game can put a hurting on fast fallers but that doesn't make them good. Besides goodness is all comparative/relative. As a rule of thumb, if you want to beat someone with bad characters you either have to do at least one of the following 1. be the better player in the first place so it doesn't matter who you play 2. jank them with MU inexperience 3. get lucky

 

[MOJoe]

auto cancel is an aerial that...automatically cancels [lol] its landling lag. The only things that AC in melee are aerials that end naturally before they hit the ground. For example, a SH marth fair and nair auto cancels because the full animation plays out before he hits the ground. I believe Falco's full hop bair auto cancels which is actually kind of useful but that's it.
Auto canceling is much more important in Brawl because landing lag is more of an issue since you can't normally cancel it and more things auto cancel in Brawl because of the lesser gravity (so the animation can play out before you hit the ground).


And because yoshi is extremely flawed. Every character in the game can put a hurting on fast fallers but that doesn't make them good. Besides goodness is all comparative/relative. As a rule of thumb, if you want to beat someone with bad characters you either have to do at least one of the following 1. be the better player in the first place so it doesn't matter who you play 2. jank them with MU inexperience 3. get lucky

Hey Tachi, I noticed you post in the Falco boards a lot, so I'm assuming you know what's up. Could you offer up any advice for me?

 

[MOJoe]

Ok, so it appears that aside from the obvious play more, put more time in, and you will get better at your decisionmaking skills and such
You have two major problems.
1. You don't know when your moves end.
This means that you input new actions before the prior action has ended, and therefore one or more of your inputs doesn't register. This happens multiple times in the video, most notably when you Uptilt>Downsmash>Standing Laser in the first game, on the right platform, about a minute into the game. I assume you meant to uptilt, downair, fullhop or shorthop laser, but you input the jump for the dair before the uptilt's lag had ended, and then the dair input came out as a dsmash, and then you input the jump for the laser before the dsmash ended, so you standing laser instead.
Nothing can substitute for learning the timing for the lag of all your moves.
2. You hesitate too much.
This comes with time, but right now you have many situations which play out like this: You get your opponent in a disadvantageous position, like their shield, or on the ledge, and then you hesitate, and think what to do, but by the time you do it, the opponent is free from hitstun and counterattacks you. You let the opponent escape disadvantageous positions without penalty. Work on this for sure. Go in to your advantageous positions with a plan. Know what you are going to do when you see the opportunity for a positional advantage. Go in the the shield pressure situation knowing that you are going to dair>shinegrab, or bair>shine>bair>shine pressure and punish a possible roll with fsmash. Going in without a plan is just as dangerous as running straight at the opponent in neutral.
In short, have a game plan when you enter the situation.

Otherwise, very good stuff for a player of 4 months, keep on improving! Hope to see you around the boards more!

Your 2nd statement is extremely true and helpful. Thank you. The 1st one, maybe you're still right about that, but I actually remember that in those 2 instances you pointed out, the problem was actually that I just tapped jump way too softly and it didn't register. Those were my cold hands johns. Lol. I have done what you said before though. Now it's usually just technical input errors. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[KP17]

all aerials autocancel at some point im pretty sure, but only some are useful because they occur within a short hop or full hop (sh bair falco and fh bair fox)

 

[BTmoney]

all aerials autocancel at some point im pretty sure, but only some are useful because they occur within a short hop or full hop (sh bair falco and sh bair fox)

yeah that's basically what I meant to say. Some AC's are completely useless though

Hey Tachi, I noticed you post in the Falco boards a lot, so I'm assuming you know what's up. Could you offer up any advice for me?

Yeah I'll give you a serious critique to the best of my ability. I'll start watching now. I really just like discussing things and being logical but thanks for the compliment all the same :]

 

[BTmoney]

I need some help/advice on my Falco. I've only been playing for 4 months now, so I know my tech skill isn't the best and the first game of this set, I had cold hands johns because I had just gotten back from our dinner break at the tourney. I did already notice that my OoS game is poor and my recoveries are exTREMEly predictable, but any other additional help would be appreciated greatly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTM3sH7vAuo&list=UUNSav2dc0h2tvw5FfZXFS5Q&index=22

Cactuar was posting somewhere that Falco approaches in patterns with certain lengths (because every Falco player has approached with a SHL onto your shield lol. And he then went on to how he goes about countering it or at least trying to deal with it but that's not important right now lol).
I think what he is saying is true because Falco's low ground speed and low aerial horizontal speed sort of make for broad casted approaches unless you are spacing/DD'ing/baiting aggressively. I think Falco's DD game is usuable but it is on the poor side for top tier characters (Falcon, Marth, Sheik, Fox).
So really I think if you're not lasering and encroaching with lasers then you really need to be on top of your opponent, on their shield, or crossing them up. I feel like you would just try to catch Yoshi with a DD dair or a random dair and it never really worked out. Falco isn't played like other characters and I am still trying to optimize my style. But on a basic level space animals can do this pretty well and you should always remember this. When you are playing, make the game as unplayable as possible for your opponent. This means laser, this means get on their shield, and this means punish them for being on their shield. Take away their options and then punish them for having no options. My understanding of Falco is growing as I convey to you what I think.

My (anti) Falco game is completely based on being able to move quickly on the ground despite lasers. I've spent a lot of time working on being able to move out of the shield stun of a laser with wavedashes, and it lets me really mess up laser approach spacing. This is just my personal strategy and I don't think any other Marth players, other than the ones I've taught this to, do something like this. It's a bit complicated, but boiled down its like this: Falco approaches in set increments most of the time. 1 unit of this increment is equal to the distance the Falco covers while doing a SHL. You want to constantly reposition yourself so that you are always at a .5 of a distance away from the Falco, optimally at .5 or 1.5. If they get impatient and try to attack, you can easily punish with a quick fair out of shield, or grab, or whatever you want really. It's something you really need to think about and practice to implement properly.

That is how Cactuar summed up falco's neutral game and really you have lasers, dair, and nair. I'm not really good at FH, DJ nairs with Falco so really I need to ask someone about that but I don't think it is as good with Falco as is it is with Fox.


As a whole, check your spacing and how you DD.
A bunch of times in the match you got hit out of the half of your DD that is towards your opponent.
Yoshi would just jump to the end of your DD and smack you. It happened multiple times.
Your dash dance is also super predictable and is always in the same pattren lol I noticed that like 3/4ths through the video. You dash back->forward->back->forward->aerial.
Don't be afraid to wavedash back in your DD or bait a little more since you are on Yoshi's and your laser game is being mitigated.

You should also look into cross up nairs. If they hit then convert from them and if not you're pretty much safe and are DD'ing behind an opponent (who's not facing you and can't jump out of his shield). Don't be afraird to pressure yoshi's shield more and if you don't want to, you can always shine grab Yoshi pretty easily. Be sure to laser when you have the space because Falco is really poor at closing out opponents horizontally or approaching without being stuffed which is why I personally don't like smalls stages like Yoshi's Story vs. a character like Yoshi, or at least an opponent, who likes platform movement and combos.

I think FD (or even BF with the stage being bigger) would have done you better so you can get your laser game going and so he can't abuse any platform movement. Then you can impose your Falco-will all over yoshi and make him look like the bad character he is once you force him in shield. It also gives him less safety when recovering high which he did for a lot of the game.


You also really should improve your DI and DI more/everything in general. It didn't look like you would DI a lot of hits. Being predictable and easily edge guarded is usually the result of bad DI because you lose options when you are recovering from underneath the stage. You have a million more options to recover and should have instant results once you start DI'ing and recovering on to the stage/or ledge from above the stage and not below it. I don't think you DI'd a down smash once lol.

You also only CC'd maybe two or three hits the entire game and did not get conversions off of them when I would imagine that most of Yoshi's moves are prone to CC at low percent.

When edge guarding Yoshi, it's not a MU I am well acquainted with but as a rule of thumb, you want to not face the enemy and just bair them repeatedly. Falco kinda sucks at edge guarding (really as a whole) and especially when you face the opponent (although SH/FH off stage shinestall ->turnaround bair actually isn't bad) unless they poorly DI something and have to come form below the stage to the ledge and you can fsmash/dsmash/dair the ledge. Falco really can't apply that much pressure to a recovering opponent by jumping off stage because he can't stay off stage or go that far off for that long because he'll die lol or can easily get the situation reversed on him. Unlike a sheik, falcon, marth, falcon, puff, peach. But really just sit by the ledge (or grab it if they DI'd something poorly) and bair Yoshi he got back a lot unscathed. If really want to face them or you have the time to, spam lasers (with the intent to hit them) while they are recovering then turn your back to prepare your bairs or grab the ledge.

Yeah like you said your OOS game is pretty weak. When you see a high aerial on your shield you can probably punish it. I buffer everything OOS and it lets you cheese people so much for being sloppy. I think c-stick buffering SH's OOS is really good and simple so every player should do it.
You put yourself in your shield a lot and stayed in your shield and took away your own options it almost looks like you just learned to shine OOS and you were fishing for it. That's what I did when I first got good at shining out of shield (I was like roflcopter l33t offensive shielding).

There were also some missed L-cancels and sloppy/late moving out of IASA/lag frames.



Now i'm getting lazy lol....but here are somethings that stood out to me. I didn't write down everything.

1:08 you dair'd yoshi while he was invincible and got punished for it
1:11 awkard dsmash on platform lol, looks like a missed input, standing laser
1:19 you are in a position of power and you roll instead of trying to era
4:02 really bad fmash on shield, yoshi is terrible in his shield
4:43 waveland onto that plat for go for an instant bair (instant aerials off of DJ shine are actually super easy)
4:45 good choice to go to the platform cancel to recover



All that being said, I am not actually that great of this game. I think I have pretty good understanding and decision making but I am just putting it all together still.

Actually now I'm itching to play with my guys because I want to make sure I can do all the things I'm telling you to do.


Bones0 where you at with your blue text? Let's Talk Falco's neutral game.

 

[ElloEddy]

couple questions
what tier is yoshi cuz ive seen multiple yoshis **** spacies and falcon
so why is yoshi not Atier

and what is auto canceling
i want to auto cancel arials with falco but what the hell is that

everyone ***** sapcies and falcon.....lol easiest characters to combo in all of melee

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

i saw a random 20 sec clip of some falco
i think it was mattdotzeb
and he was sh bairing across fd and it was all auto canceled
here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DFN8XwgfbE
im guessing that is a near perfect rising bair cuz thats too legit to quit imo

 

[BTmoney]

That looks broken lol

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

aight well ima start uploading matches for you guys to expose me
need work and i will get some uploads with smashers who are better than me and i def be hittin up some xanadu monthly 5/4

whats acceptable as far as recording matches cuz i dont have anything to stream
can i record with your typical uploaded match that is from an iphone or some ****?

 

[JKJ]

Please god, get an easycap at the very least.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

wait wtf can i do to record my matches if they are not at the venues

 

[MOJoe]

Cactuar was posting somewhere that Falco approaches in patterns with certain lengths (because every Falco player has approached with a SHL onto your shield lol. And he then went on to how he goes about countering it or at least trying to deal with it but that's not important right now lol).
I think what he is saying is true because Falco's low ground speed and low aerial horizontal speed sort of make for broad casted approaches unless you are spacing/DD'ing/baiting aggressively. I think Falco's DD game is usuable but it is on the poor side for top tier characters (Falcon, Marth, Sheik, Fox).
So really I think if you're not lasering and encroaching with lasers then you really need to be on top of your opponent, on their shield, or crossing them up. I feel like you would just try to catch Yoshi with a DD dair or a random dair and it never really worked out. Falco isn't played like other characters and I am still trying to optimize my style. But on a basic level space animals can do this pretty well and you should always remember this. When you are playing, make the game as unplayable as possible for your opponent. This means laser, this means get on their shield, and this means punish them for being on their shield. Take away their options and then punish them for having no options. My understanding of Falco is growing as I convey to you what I think.



That is how Cactuar summed up falco's neutral game and really you have lasers, dair, and nair. I'm not really good at FH, DJ nairs with Falco so really I need to ask someone about that but I don't think it is as good with Falco as is it is with Fox.


As a whole, check your spacing and how you DD.
A bunch of times in the match you got hit out of the half of your DD that is towards your opponent.
Yoshi would just jump to the end of your DD and smack you. It happened multiple times.
Your dash dance is also super predictable and is always in the same pattren lol I noticed that like 3/4ths through the video. You dash back->forward->back->forward->aerial.
Don't be afraid to wavedash back in your DD or bait a little more since you are on Yoshi's and your laser game is being mitigated.

You should also look into cross up nairs. If they hit then convert from them and if not you're pretty much safe and are DD'ing behind an opponent (who's not facing you and can't jump out of his shield). Don't be afraird to pressure yoshi's shield more and if you don't want to, you can always shine grab Yoshi pretty easily. Be sure to laser when you have the space because Falco is really poor at closing out opponents horizontally or approaching without being stuffed which is why I personally don't like smalls stages like Yoshi's Story vs. a character like Yoshi, or at least an opponent, who likes platform movement and combos.

I think FD (or even BF with the stage being bigger) would have done you better so you can get your laser game going and so he can't abuse any platform movement. Then you can impose your Falco-will all over yoshi and make him look like the bad character he is once you force him in shield. It also gives him less safety when recovering high which he did for a lot of the game.


You also really should improve your DI and DI more/everything in general. It didn't look like you would DI a lot of hits. Being predictable and easily edge guarded is usually the result of bad DI because you lose options when you are recovering from underneath the stage. You have a million more options to recover and should have instant results once you start DI'ing and recovering on to the stage/or ledge from above the stage and not below it. I don't think you DI'd a down smash once lol.

You also only CC'd maybe two or three hits the entire game and did not get conversions off of them when I would imagine that most of Yoshi's moves are prone to CC at low percent.

When edge guarding Yoshi, it's not a MU I am well acquainted with but as a rule of thumb, you want to not face the enemy and just bair them repeatedly. Falco kinda sucks at edge guarding (really as a whole) and especially when you face the opponent (although SH/FH off stage shinestall ->turnaround bair actually isn't bad) unless they poorly DI something and have to come form below the stage to the ledge and you can fsmash/dsmash/dair the ledge. Falco really can't apply that much pressure to a recovering opponent by jumping off stage because he can't stay off stage or go that far off for that long because he'll die lol or can easily get the situation reversed on him. Unlike a sheik, falcon, marth, falcon, puff, peach. But really just sit by the ledge (or grab it if they DI'd something poorly) and bair Yoshi he got back a lot unscathed. If really want to face them or you have the time to, spam lasers (with the intent to hit them) while they are recovering then turn your back to prepare your bairs or grab the ledge.

Yeah like you said your OOS game is pretty weak. When you see a high aerial on your shield you can probably punish it. I buffer everything OOS and it lets you cheese people so much for being sloppy. I think c-stick buffering SH's OOS is really good and simple so every player should do it.
You put yourself in your shield a lot and stayed in your shield and took away your own options it almost looks like you just learned to shine OOS and you were fishing for it. That's what I did when I first got good at shining out of shield (I was like roflcopter l33t offensive shielding).

There were also some missed L-cancels and sloppy/late moving out of IASA/lag frames.



Now i'm getting lazy lol....but here are somethings that stood out to me. I didn't write down everything.

1:08 you dair'd yoshi while he was invincible and got punished for it
1:11 awkard dsmash on platform lol, looks like a missed input, standing laser
1:19 you are in a position of power and you roll instead of trying to era
4:02 really bad fmash on shield, yoshi is terrible in his shield
4:43 waveland onto that plat for go for an instant bair (instant aerials off of DJ shine are actually super easy)
4:45 good choice to go to the platform cancel to recover



All that being said, I am not actually that great of this game. I think I have pretty good understanding and decision making but I am just putting it all together still.

Actually now I'm itching to play with my guys because I want to make sure I can do all the things I'm telling you to do.


Bones0 where you at with your blue text? Let's Talk Falco's neutral game.

Thank you very much Tachi. Everything is of great value. Can I ask one more thing? How did you practice DI? Because when I played this game when I was little, I would always hold left on the control stick if I was sent right, right if I was sent left and down if I was sent up because I obviously had no clue what metagame was when I was like 7. Now it's muscle memory to do that which is why it looks like I don't DI. I always end up DI'ing the right way like a full second later (which is obviously too late.)

 

[JKJ]

Get a USB capture card. It takes video input, so get a splitter to split the video and audio from the gamecube to both the capture card and the tv. Then play, and have a video capture software (comes with capture card) record the video to a file.
The best capture card is a dazzle, but its expensive.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

Get a USB capture card. It takes video input, so get a splitter to split the video and audio from the gamecube to both the capture card and the tv. Then play, and have a video capture software (comes with capture card) record the video to a file.
The best capture card is a dazzle, but its expensive.

huh?????????????
**** it ill just get some smart people to do it

 

[BTmoney]

Thank you very much Tachi. Everything is of great value. Can I ask one more thing? How did you practice DI? Because when I played this game when I was little, I would always hold left on the control stick if I was sent right, right if I was sent left and down if I was sent up because I obviously had no clue what metagame was when I was like 7. Now it's muscle memory to do that which is why it looks like I don't DI. I always end up DI'ing the right way like a full second later (which is obviously too late.)

No probs dude :]


At first if you have trouble getting good angles then try at first to DI everything up at 45 degrees. You want to DI between parallel and perpendicular of your trajectory. (or DI up to the nearest corner to enhance or chance to survive when you are in danger of going off a blastzone cuz triangles n' hypotenuses and ****. I can explain that if you want). Meaning if you get hit to the left, DI half up and half inwards (to the right). This is DI'ing to the right at 45 degrees above horizontal.

Really to actually get any DI you have to anticipate getting hit or accept the fact that you could get hit and hold the direction premptively.
(i.e. you fsmash on someones shield, you know it was a bad fsmash you are gonna get hit by an OOS aerial and you're at high percent so you DI inwards and up to resist the hit)

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

what are the straight up, imperative di angles for combos
shud i hold away with cstick and up with control stick
its a marth and i want to get out and **** up his combo or get a platform tech

i have a much better understanding of di, hit lag and all that stuff and survival
i just am not relevant to the right angles at the right times i should say
any ground rules for pointing the sticks in the right directions

 

[MOJoe]

No probs dude :]


At first if you have trouble getting good angles then try at first to DI everything up at 45 degrees. You want to DI between parallel and perpendicular of your trajectory. (or DI up to the nearest corner to enhance or chance to survive when you are in danger of going off a blastzone cuz triangles n' hypotenuses and ****. I can explain that if you want). Meaning if you get hit to the left, DI half up and half inwards (to the right). This is DI'ing to the right at 45 degrees above horizontal.

Really to actually get any DI you have to anticipate getting hit or accept the fact that you could get hit and hold the direction premptively.
(i.e. you fsmash on someones shield, you know it was a bad fsmash you are gonna get hit by an OOS aerial and you're at high percent so you DI inwards and up to resist the hit)

Lol. Don't worry, I know aout triangles and hypotenuses and ***. That's how I always explain it to a friend when I teach them smash for the first time. I just suck at it.

 

[BTmoney]

what are the straight up, imperative di angles for combos
shud i hold away with cstick and up with control stick
its a marth and i want to get out and **** up his combo or get a platform tech

i have a much better understanding of di, hit lag and all that stuff and survival
i just am not relevant to the right angles at the right times i should say
any ground rules for pointing the sticks in the right directions

Combo DI generally is away/down or away. DI'ing somethings down is also sometimes useful. That's really it lol.
the c-stick won't really affect your combo DI unless you are trying to SDI while getting combo'd

 

[noobird]

except cstick is only for asdi so no you just need control stick to sdi during combos which is useful when you're daired at low percents because you can sdi out of shine range

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

so how would you on shine di if you want to get out of the way of the next waveshine?
just mash each stick away b4 you get hit?

 

[BTmoney]

so how would you on shine di if you want to get out of the way of the next waveshine?
just mash each stick away b4 you get hit?

It's a true combo on characters that don't fall down so it's pretty hard to escape. Really just DI away (some character can only be followed up with perfect wavelands on Fox's part) and try to quarter circle SDI if you're good at that. I basically always quarter circle whenever I SDI anything but I don't know other people's methods.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

It's a true combo on characters that don't fall down so it's pretty hard to escape. Really just DI away (some character can only be followed up with perfect wavelands on Fox's part) and try to quarter circle SDI if you're good at that. I basically always quarter circle whenever I SDI anything but I don't know other people's methods.

how many di inputs do you usually do cuz wouldnt you buffer an arial if your still mashing the cstick and your hitlag ends?
also how do you physically di the second fox uair hit
i can tell you i am pretty confused on sdi lol

 

[BTmoney]

how many di inputs do you usually do cuz wouldnt you buffer an arial if your still mashing the cstick and your hitlag ends?
also how do you physically di the second fox uair hit
i can tell you i am pretty confused on sdi lol

I don't know lol it's hard (to get just left or right SDI inputs you have to input to the right, let the stick to go neutral, then push it back to the right etc. while in hitstun. as you can see, it's hard to move the stick then put it back in neutral fast enough, that is why people quarter circle/half circle things) and I don't know anyone who actually does it right. I've seen it in TAS, you can go far as hell actually but once again respect the fact that it is extremely impractical and difficult. And yes getting a smash/aerial is a problem with trying to SDI a quick move.

I don't know if any player actually SDIs the shine consistently or enough to prevent follows ups with a perfect waveland.


uair:
My method is jank/nonsense. I hold up with the analog stick once I get thrown to ASDI the first hit up (because ASDI reads the direction of the control stick when you get hit so just hold it preemptively) and I quarter/half circle SDI with the c-stick between the hits. I prefer and to do quarter/halfcircle (instead of flicking the c-stick up like Hungrybox does, you can watch him flick it actually a bunch during Apex 2013, you can see how fast you have to be).

So lets say it takes you 6 or so frames to rotate from left to top left, to up, to top right, to right. Hypothetically the first hit of upair puts you in hitstun for 3 frames. Because in my experience (both a left and a right input SDI will get you out of the uair) any of the 6 frames of SDI input while you roll the c-stick combined with the preemptive ASDI will be enough to get you out of the second hit. This allows you to be a little early and still have it work.

The only time I don't get out of the second hit is when I am slow and don't react fast enough.
This is experimental and I'm still working on it actually but there has not been a time where I actually input this on time and didn't get out of the 2nd hit.



Then of course there is KK's Demo Kirby Method and then there is standard just mash up when you get hit in X amount of frames.