Exactly what is "wrong" with Meta Knight?

[Lus146]

Obviously Meta Knight isn't exactly where he was on the tier lists in Brawl but I've been playing around with him and he seems like a pretty middle/mid-high tier character. Don't get me wrong I'm no pro and I wouldn't even put myself at the level of half the people on smashboards but if someone could explain why Meta Knight is so low that'd be super cool. Thanks!

Edit: Other thank of course the lack of transcendent skills.

 

[Bonk!]

A lack of tools in the neutral is a pretty big part of the problem. Characters who do well in neutral like Falcon and Sonic can give us a lot of trouble. We do significantly less damage than we did in Brawl and our range is also decreased. People also don't accept that Meta Knight's specials were changed and not nerfed.

Although Meta Knight comes with many combos and kill setups, the tier list compares players playing at a top level, meaning the opponent is expected to have correct DI against his strings. Characters that are easier to play than Meta Knight are just better when the players are of equal skill.

 

[LaserLockOn]

- His range was nerfed, especially his Dsmash. Some animations don't match his hitboxes.
- Fair, Bair, and Nair have endlag now, it's harder to edgeguard or approach with.
- All of his special moves when whiffed can be punished
- No more gliding
- General percentage reductions

+ More KO potential
+ Neutral B does 21%
+ Dash Attack Bros

Meta Knight is a little weird with his fighting style compared to the rest of the cast, more or less unbalanced. His most significant change is his exchange of consistent attacks for more, KO moves. UpB, DownB, and NeutralB now kill, and his Fsmash is pretty monstrous now. However it's harder to approach with his regular attacks (Dash Attack is his best approach option). If you try to overuse his specials it'll get easy for the opponent to predict and counter those moves.

In general, using regular moves rewards less than the amount of risk, and his specials are powerful but can be punished when used wrongly. Plus lightweightiness and fast falling speed, he can't take too much of a beating.

Edit: Sorry if I gave some misinformation, I was writing this dead at night. I don't think Meta Knight is actually bad with his range or playstyle, he's just harder to play with. Of course I still have fun playing Meta Knight though.

 

[Katakiri]

If people could stop listing Meta Knight's range as a negative, that would be greeaat... Especially considering he has equal or more range to Fox, Kirby, Mario, Luigi, and Sheik on top of all our moves being disjointed since MK isn't throwing his own limbs out to attack like most characters; just his sword. The playstyle of the Brawl/Melee swordsman is effectively dead. MK's a punishing, momentum-based character. The sooner we stop comparing Smash 4 to Brawl, the better.

 

[warionumbah2]

Whats with this bull**** listing of weaknesses? Only true weakness is his weight and his neutral (exaggerated as hell).

Edit: just wanna say a good MK can throw out tornado and go unpunished because well they're 'good'. There's times on BF where I throw nado out 3 times and go unpunished. MKs spinning animation after nado allows him to slide of platforms also at certain heights it autocancels.

Drill rush is hard to punish if drilled into the ground causing MK to jump, drill rush demolishes aerials off stage causing stage spikes.

Cape autocancels.

Up b is not safe if used incorrectly so yea, platforms help but not much. So thats 3/4 specials that are safe.

You can't sell bull**** we know the prices. - MK mains.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Edit: just wanna say a good MK can throw out tornado and go unpunished because well they're 'good'. There's times on BF where I throw nado out 3 times and go unpunished. MKs spinning animation after nado allows him to slide of platforms also at certain heights it autocancels.

If I miss a Nado and I am in the position to run, sometimes I elevate Nado and then go for the ledge so that I just grab the ledge after I fall out of Tornado. It's saved me from being punished quite a few times. Fun stuff.

 

[Lus146]

If people could stop listing Meta Knight's range as a negative, that would be greeaat... Especially considering he has equal or more range to Fox, Kirby, Mario, Luigi, and Sheik on top of all our moves being disjointed since MK isn't throwing his own limbs out to attack like most characters; just his sword. The playstyle of the Brawl/Melee swordsman is effectively dead. MK's a punishing, momentum-based character. The sooner we stop comparing Smash 4 to Brawl, the better.

Yeah I agree. I didn't really run into any problems with too little range although you could definitely feel it

 

[Zeriora]

I have 467 wins with meta knight on FG, 139 losses.
I've fought every good character in the game and kicked everyones a**.
His fast, his approach game is good, can avoid projectiles with down B, can fly, can COMBO AND KILL AS EARLY AS 30%
Nothing is wrong with meta knight.

 

[Bonk!]

I have 467 wins with meta knight on FG, 139 losses.
I've fought every good character in the game and kicked everyones a**.
His fast, his approach game is good, can avoid projectiles with down B, can fly, can COMBO AND KILL AS EARLY AS 30%
Nothing is wrong with meta knight.

For Glory, but okay.

 

[Zeriora]

Yeah I know, but even look at Unknown, his pretty damn good.

 

[Ulevo]

Yeah I know, but even look at Unknown, his pretty damn good.

Unknown is no where near as good as he could be with the character.

 

[Zeriora]

Unknown is no where near as good as he could be with the character.

True, ITO is the real deal.

 

[420quickscoper]

I have 467 wins with meta knight on FG, 139 losses.
I've fought every good character in the game and kicked everyones a**.
His fast, his approach game is good, can avoid projectiles with down B, can fly, can COMBO AND KILL AS EARLY AS 30%
Nothing is wrong with meta knight.

Every character has their own weakness. MK does too, however, it's hard for me to tell when you only concentrate on a match.

How many players that are as good as you have fought you? Because if you're above the average player, it may be your experience with MK, and not exactly the character.

Still, I think MK is a great character, especially since I main him.

 

[Zeriora]

Every character has their own weakness. MK does too, however, it's hard for me to tell when you only concentrate on a match.

How many players that are as good as you have fought you? Because if you're above the average player, it may be your experience with MK, and not exactly the character.

Still, I think MK is a great character, especially since I main him.

Yeah I agree. Meta knights weakness, is no ranged attacks. He has to rush in otherwise, his pretty useless.

 

[Zeriora]

Yeah I agree. Meta knights weakness, is no ranged attacks. He has to rush in otherwise, his good.

Plays like C. Falcon

 

[Kyzael]

Plays like C. Falcon

If Meta Knight plays like Captain Falcon, then it's pretty annoying when I fight my friend who plays Captain Falcon.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Plays like C. Falcon

Yes he does.

Except without the close up game.

Or range.

Or longevity.

Or easy kills.

 

[ItoI6]

hes got better recovery, better guaranteed damage from combos, and far more swag and variety than falcons basic flowchart ass at least

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

And that is why I dropped Falcon for MK.

 

[warionumbah2]

Falcon is like so common, he's lost his cool factor because of sheeple being sheep.

 

[AmishTechnology]

Falcon is a meme. Brawl MK was a meme for entirely different reasons lmao.

 

[Ulevo]

Does this thread serve any purpose?

 

[420quickscoper]

Plays like C. Falcon

I'd say Meta Knight is part rush down character, but he doesn't really play falcon. The reason I think why he doesn't exactly play like him is because his attacks are less laggy but doing less damage than Falcon. On the other hand, his main approach is usually to dash attack or dash grab, which is basically the same way Falcon does.

Does this thread serve any purpose?

Well... yes and no. Yes, because the creator asked a simple question because he couldn't find much fault with MK, and wanted to ask a question. No, because that can obviously be answered in the Q&A thread.

The no cancels out the yes for me.

Yes he does.

Except without the close up game.

Or range.

Or longevity.

Or easy kills.

Most of those I feel are correct, but I don't know exactly what to say about the close up game. He basically has to get in because he has barely any ranged attacks, or projectiles to speak of. Dash grab and dash attack are basically his two approach options, though both can be lightly punished.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Mid range =/= close range. When I say close up game I mean like Jab range. Meta Knight is weird because he doesn't have long range tools (though we can run away pretty well) and our close range tools are really situational.

 

[Kyzael]

Mid range =/= close range. When I say close up game I mean like Jab range. Meta Knight is weird because he doesn't have long range tools (though we can run away pretty well) and our close range tools are really situational.

When I play Meta Knight, the biggest problem I have is actually using Mach Tornado. I've managed to catch people in it at 0% from the Dthrow but there are times when even that misses. (And I input wrong into Drill Rush.)

I started to use the Cape without the slash as a way to trick my opponant into thinking I have the normal lag time with the slash so I get a punish with grab.
And I have to thank you for that tip awhile ago about the Fsmash. I started abusing that and it was actually irritating my friend as he wasn't able to punish it.

 

[DavemanCozy]

His priblem is that he isn't Brawl mk, so he requires skill to play now and that's why he's bad!!!

But seriously, he's still good. I'll admit I shoved him aside until I played more with him post 1.04 patch (pre patch he was actually really bad), he has tons of ways of securing KOs, whether it's by gimping or KOing off the top.

I think he's just suffering from the same effect Wario and Olimar are in this game: they received significant changes but are still solid characters one could say are high tiers, just no one plays them nor represent them at a high enough level to be noticed. I'm ok with this though, it only makes me want to prove these characters.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

Range mostly. But yeah, as the person above me said he's still good after the patch that gave him a few more reliable tools came out.

 

[Diagonal_Smash]

If people could stop listing Meta Knight's range as a negative, that would be greeaat... Especially considering he has equal or more range to Fox, Kirby, Mario, Luigi, and Sheik on top of all our moves being disjointed since MK isn't throwing his own limbs out to attack like most characters; just his sword. The playstyle of the Brawl/Melee swordsman is effectively dead. MK's a punishing, momentum-based character. The sooner we stop comparing Smash 4 to Brawl, the better.

Cept there's a bit difference between metaknight and characters like fox, sheik, mario and luigi. They actually have projectiles. When you are fox, and can spam lasers, you aren't forced to approach so much as metaknight. With no range whatsoever, not so great specials, and a mediocre grab range, it can be tough though. Although he does have a great dash attack, dash attacks aren't always a good option.

Smash 4 is great though, because even low tier characters stand a chance, it just takes a lot of effort.

 

[Ulevo]

@ Katakiri Can we close this? All it is doing is feeding misinformation.

 

[warionumbah2]

It's uusually people who don't even main MK spreading bull**** on this thread like the one above ulevo. Surprise surprise never change smashboards. On mobile so forgive the erros

 

[Katakiri]

Yeah this has run it's course.