Empty landing lag normalization suggestion to PMDT

[G13_Flux]

This is probably a rather minute thing in the development teams eyes, but its something I want to post and add as a suggestion because i think its something that would make certain characters feel cleaner, smoother, and less clunky to play as.

Currently almost every character has 4 frames of empty landing lag. theres a couple that have 5 frames (M2, DK, zard, and ganon), and then theres two that have a 6 frame landing lag (DDD and bowser).

my suggestion is to normalize this, because at the moment it just doest really make sense. we have heavy characters like yoshi and samus with 4 frame landing lags, and mid weight characters like m2 having 5. itd be understandable to have the heaviest characters have the longest empty landing lag, but DK is the second heaviest and he has one less than DDD who is slightly lighter than him. i think it would make sense to take the heaviest characters in the game, and normalize them all to 5 frames. then take the lighter characters and keep them at 4 frames. (this includes making m2s a 4 frame one instead of 5).

the other argument I have for this is that it would create a more fluid air > ground transition for characters like DDD and bowser. at the moment, theyre not two of the best characters, so even though its technically a buff, reducing their disproportionately large landing lag would only really be a marginal buff (not affecting balance), and really contributes more to person playing them and the fluidity of the inputs.

additionally, from 3.02 to 3.5, there were a number of jumpsquat normalizations. link, ganon, and bowser all got shortened jumpquats to help fluidity, and it naturally makes more sense. both me and my room mate, as well as others ive seen on smash boards, are happy with those decreased jumpsquats because they can notice it during wavedashes and SHFFLs, and it feels a lot smoother. this is a close parallel to that.

TLDR: I think that at the moment, the current empty landing lag dispersion around the cast doesnt make sense (mid weight M2 with a higher lag than super heavy yoshi; super heavy DK with less lag than lighter super heavy DDD), and i think it could be normalized to make sense as well as improve input fluidity among the disproportionately high lag characters such as bowser and DDD, where having a marginal buff wouldnt affect balance.

 

[Phaiyte]

I like the suggestion and all, but, I hope you're not implying the D3 is a bad character or something.

 

[G13_Flux]

no no. i believe DDD is right around the mid to mid-high range actually. im just giving some validity to the possibility of a buff, since hes certainly far from a top tier character; however, like i said, i dont believe that decreasing his empty landing lag is going to really amount to a balance buff. its too marginal. i just think its something that would increase fluidity, increase player comfortability with inputs, and make certain aspects of DDDs game less clunky (as well as others). its also something that just makes natural sense. If they want characters to have 6 frame jumpsquats, at least make it so that the system makes sense. having DK with a 5 framer just doesnt make sense when hes heavier than DDD. you could make the argument that slower characters should have longer lags, but then you have characters like link (one of the slowest characters in the game, and slower than bowser) with a 4 frame endlag. i cant really see any argument being made for the current system. people could talk about the design goals on a characters air > ground transition speed, but im still not seeing any reason that this cant be changed.

its just something that i feel that a change make players more fluid and comfortable with inputs without disrupting balance, and at the same time making more sense intuitively. at the moment, its very random, and because the PMDT has such focused design goals, i hope its something that they will really listen to, and take heed to my arguments for it.

 

[Star ☆]

I would also like to see tech rolls normalised. It doesn't make sense in my mind that some characters get out of tech chases that much easier than other characters without a clear reason for that design choice.

 

[Foo]

I think that normalized empty landing lag would be a good idea

I would also like to see tech rolls normalised. It doesn't make sense in my mind that some characters get out of tech chases that much easier than other characters without a clear reason for that design choice.

Eh, idk about this one. I think different tech rolls speeds are fine to make characters better or worse on defense. Some characters weight and aerial speed/coverage makes them get out of combos and juggles more easily, some characters get out shield more easily, and some characters get out of tech chases more easily. I just think there needs to be more reason behind it. I can't really think of any reason why most of the cast has the tech rolls they do. For instance, why do so many characters that are super strong in most areas also get some of the best tech rolls? It's weird that character's like sheik, fox, falco etc. get really really good tech rolls, and then a character like squirtle gets terrible ones because reasons.

 

[G13_Flux]

i just dont understand why the spacies have godlike tech rolls but falcons is literally the worst.. while i dont think all tech rolls should be the same, i do think they should be modified around the cast to reflect their defensive attributes better, and in a way that makes sense, just like empty landing lags and jump squats should make sense.

 

[Eisen]

i just dont understand why the spacies have godlike tech rolls but falcons is literally the worst.. while i dont think all tech rolls should be the same, i do think they should modified around the cast to reflect their defensive attributes better, and in a way that makes sense, just like empty landing lags and jump squats should make sense.

I feel like some of it is laziness, honestly. I can't really blame the PMDT, though. It's not really usually something that gets people excited, but I really think it ought to be taken into consideration. Further, there are a few attributes like turnaround speed (not dash dancing, but the skid animation a character does when they are mid dash and the player inputs the other direction) that don't make sense, either. Lucas' is horribly slow for some reason. I feel like if they made Bowser's a little more like Squirtle's, it mike make him an actual threat in the neutral.

 

[G13_Flux]

Yeah theres definitely a lot of attributes that were just straight up ported from brawl/melee, but don't make sense. I would love for them to go through and do a cleanup of these things, though it seems like they're doing them slowly but surely. I'm looking forward to see if they adjust any of the things mentioned here on 3.6. I know balance changes are. going to be small, but these are rather minute, nuanced things