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Edgeguarding Marth ?
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Zionaze
Smash Ace
Fox isnt really an edge-huarder but a well timed B-air works when they try to dolphin slash
krazyzyko
Smash Champion
Marth killer, shine spike and bair are usually the main options.
If theyre on the edge and have low % try to CC shine their ledge hop fair.
If theyre on the edge and have low % try to CC shine their ledge hop fair.
BO/\K
Smash Apprentice
Sometimes I pretend I'm Sheik and invincible ledgehop nair when he recovers below me when I'm grabbing the ledge. It doesn't kill him outright but it usually puts him in an easy to handle position if he's at a decent %
Ok ok, here's how to edge gaurd marth.
Grab the ledge when you knock him off, because there isn't much you can do from on stage since his recovery angle is nearly vertical and hits the area in front of the ledge.
So once you've grabbed the ledge if the marth has no double jump and he's really low, just roll up.
If he isn't that low, plank(drop then double jump to regrab the ledge) once to regain invincibility and then do the stand up by pressing forward on the control stick on reaction to his up b. If he land on the stage hit him off again and repeat.
If he's got a jump then you have to watch out because he can either dj and do an aerial, sideb, or upb early. Basically you can cover all of these by letting go of the ledge and regrabbing it. Some do this with the firefox edgestall, which is better, but unnecessary. Then when he tries to strike your invincibility by choosing one of these... just hit him off again and now he has no jump... so just like grab ledge and roll.
And that's basically all there is to it marth is like fox's easier edge gaurd so have fun.
Grab the ledge when you knock him off, because there isn't much you can do from on stage since his recovery angle is nearly vertical and hits the area in front of the ledge.
So once you've grabbed the ledge if the marth has no double jump and he's really low, just roll up.
If he isn't that low, plank(drop then double jump to regrab the ledge) once to regain invincibility and then do the stand up by pressing forward on the control stick on reaction to his up b. If he land on the stage hit him off again and repeat.
If he's got a jump then you have to watch out because he can either dj and do an aerial, sideb, or upb early. Basically you can cover all of these by letting go of the ledge and regrabbing it. Some do this with the firefox edgestall, which is better, but unnecessary. Then when he tries to strike your invincibility by choosing one of these... just hit him off again and now he has no jump... so just like grab ledge and roll.
And that's basically all there is to it marth is like fox's easier edge gaurd so have fun.
bearsfan092
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2012
- Messages
- 402
Playing it safe when edgeguarding Marth isn't the worst idea actually. He sucks on the ledge, so all things considered making sure you don't get janked isn't a bad policy since you'll have a pretty good position should bail a little early.
If you have time, set up the light shield Marth killer, although it's not an end all solution. If you see a fair or especially a side B and you're already on ledge, those should be punished with shinespikes. With his side B, you have more time than you think to get the shine, so just have that on your radar.
SuperShus mentioned letting go and regrabbing the ledge. You can't do this more than once or twice since it's super reactable and is basically asking to get screwed on an early up B. If you need a kill rather urgently, do the fire fox stall (or the easier shine>firefox variant. For this particular situation there isn't a huge difference in performance) when you read them dropping down for the sweet spot. Time it right and you can regrab the ledge after they've committed to the sweet spot, which then results in a lost stock.
I don't recommend overdoing anything in that last paragraph though. It's kinda more for when you're behind and need to get whatever stocks you can quickly.
If you have time, set up the light shield Marth killer, although it's not an end all solution. If you see a fair or especially a side B and you're already on ledge, those should be punished with shinespikes. With his side B, you have more time than you think to get the shine, so just have that on your radar.
SuperShus mentioned letting go and regrabbing the ledge. You can't do this more than once or twice since it's super reactable and is basically asking to get screwed on an early up B. If you need a kill rather urgently, do the fire fox stall (or the easier shine>firefox variant. For this particular situation there isn't a huge difference in performance) when you read them dropping down for the sweet spot. Time it right and you can regrab the ledge after they've committed to the sweet spot, which then results in a lost stock.
I don't recommend overdoing anything in that last paragraph though. It's kinda more for when you're behind and need to get whatever stocks you can quickly.
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
To add to this sometimes if you're on stage you can dsmash a non sweet-spotted Dolphin Slash if spaced correctly. Also try to figure out when they will side b and just bair them during lag, a lot of players have bad recovery habits that are easy to dissect and capitalize off of.
1000g2g3g4g800999
Smash Journeyman
Remember that Marth can often do multiple side-b's to stall for methods that involve grabbing the ledge and regrabbing, and he can try to grab ledge between your regrabs if he can jump to the ledge. Between this and all the timings he could try to hit you or not hit you, a Marth good at recovering could make this method a little more difficult, or you might desire more than one regrab. The less far back onto stage Marth would be capable of getting back to, the less wiggleroom he has to mess with this.
If Marth has to recover from relatively low/can't double jump to the ledge, you probably have enough time to roll to the ledge and setup Marth killer if you were close when he was knocked off, and just bair if he tries to up-b and miss the shield.
If he's recovering from much higher, you can try to jump so you're not in range for an attack from him coming down to bait it out or bait a counter, fastfall and/or double jump as necessary to avoid/punish. You could also wait, ready to shield or bair, and walk as necessary to remain out of Marth's sword range, and hit him back/block him. Basically try to make him whiff something if you can't hit him before he can react or hit him out of things he does that are sufficiently laggy.
As for the dsmash, it's easier to land if you slide into position with it, or are Falco and just have invincible legs.
If Marth whiffs an aerial lower to the ground, you can also land an fsmash fairly often.
If Marth has to recover from relatively low/can't double jump to the ledge, you probably have enough time to roll to the ledge and setup Marth killer if you were close when he was knocked off, and just bair if he tries to up-b and miss the shield.
If he's recovering from much higher, you can try to jump so you're not in range for an attack from him coming down to bait it out or bait a counter, fastfall and/or double jump as necessary to avoid/punish. You could also wait, ready to shield or bair, and walk as necessary to remain out of Marth's sword range, and hit him back/block him. Basically try to make him whiff something if you can't hit him before he can react or hit him out of things he does that are sufficiently laggy.
As for the dsmash, it's easier to land if you slide into position with it, or are Falco and just have invincible legs.
If Marth whiffs an aerial lower to the ground, you can also land an fsmash fairly often.
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One trick I rarely see used is that if the marth recovers from low and is at high percents, you can often just take ledge and drop down with intangible bair. Doesn't work on yoshi's though and is harder on battlefield. Also if the marth doesn't get knocked far enough by the weak bair, he can intercept your upb.
I copied this strategy from Armada, as he used it a lot vs m2k in streamed friendlies last fall, it works quite often.
I copied this strategy from Armada, as he used it a lot vs m2k in streamed friendlies last fall, it works quite often.
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Rob_Gambino
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,206
Wait out the doublejump and b-air him for it. When he's low, mix up up shine spiking, waiting, or grabbing ledge. You'll start to pick up when they f-air, over B, or just di towards the ledge. If you think you know you when he's going to up-b. You can backwards hop over the sword of the up-B, then fast fall to edgehog if he does it kind of high through the stage. If you know he has to up-B to ledge, roll to the ledge, lightshield, and di towards the ledge.
See how they're going for the ledge. If they go low, you can either:
- do the Marth-killer (stand with your back to the ledge, and light-shield, having the shield face the ledge)
- Drop-zone bair stagespike (Not recommended. But some fall for it. Run off the stage and perform a back-air right next to the ledge. If you time it properly, then at high percentages, it will stage-spike them. Assuming they are at a high percentage, as you knocked them off the stage. Not recommended, because they can tech it, then they will get back to the stage, and you will have to up-B. Because Marth is Marth, they'll probably edge-guard you for a punish. I do this to a friend who isn't good at teching, and it always works for me. If/when he learns to tech, I'll have to stop. On the other side, this is a great mix-up, as other Foxes never go for this option. Very unpredictable. Not very viable at high-level play, unfortunately.)
There are more ways they'll go for the ledge, definitely, but they'll usually go for a sweet-spot, in which cases, you can go for these options. If they don't go for a sweet-spot, that's their problem, and you can punish.
- do the Marth-killer (stand with your back to the ledge, and light-shield, having the shield face the ledge)
- Drop-zone bair stagespike (Not recommended. But some fall for it. Run off the stage and perform a back-air right next to the ledge. If you time it properly, then at high percentages, it will stage-spike them. Assuming they are at a high percentage, as you knocked them off the stage. Not recommended, because they can tech it, then they will get back to the stage, and you will have to up-B. Because Marth is Marth, they'll probably edge-guard you for a punish. I do this to a friend who isn't good at teching, and it always works for me. If/when he learns to tech, I'll have to stop. On the other side, this is a great mix-up, as other Foxes never go for this option. Very unpredictable. Not very viable at high-level play, unfortunately.)
There are more ways they'll go for the ledge, definitely, but they'll usually go for a sweet-spot, in which cases, you can go for these options. If they don't go for a sweet-spot, that's their problem, and you can punish.