Edgeguarding Marth questions

[Efthimios]

Hey guys, long time lurker, new poster.

I've been palying falco for a little while and I find that edgeguarding spacies and falcon is quite straightforward, but I am having trouble with marth.

Marth recovering high has a lot of tools at his disposal. He can stall midair with sideB, save his double jump, airdodge, fair to intercept your bair or nair, and lasers don't stifle him as much as they do spacies. Laser Fsmash seems to get the job done, but requires a hard commit and that doesn't seem ideal.

When he recovers low, the option I see top players take is to grab the ledge and refresh invincibility with upB stalling or ledgehop stalling, then either hold ledge and roll on, or force him to land on stage and punish. The problem with this is there are no safe stall options. If marth upB's while you are vulnerable, he can set up a gimp or at least put you in a bad position. An option I like to use is to wait on stage, crouch cancel his upB and downsmash after, but that only works at low percentages, and won't hit a perfect sweetspot (I think).

Any tips or responses to my concerns?

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Hey guys, long time lurker, new poster.

I've been palying falco for a little while and I find that edgeguarding spacies and falcon is quite straightforward, but I am having trouble with marth.

Marth recovering high has a lot of tools at his disposal. He can stall midair with sideB, save his double jump, airdodge, fair to intercept your bair or nair, and lasers don't stifle him as much as they do spacies. Laser Fsmash seems to get the job done, but requires a hard commit and that doesn't seem ideal.

When he recovers low, the option I see top players take is to grab the ledge and refresh invincibility with upB stalling or ledgehop stalling, then either hold ledge and roll on, or force him to land on stage and punish. The problem with this is there are no safe stall options. If marth upB's while you are vulnerable, he can set up a gimp or at least put you in a bad position. An option I like to use is to wait on stage, crouch cancel his upB and downsmash after, but that only works at low percentages, and won't hit a perfect sweetspot (I think).

Any tips or responses to my concerns?

You're always going to have to take a risk, just commit for whatever you think would work at the time.

 

[TobiasXK]

When he recovers low, the option I see top players take is to grab the ledge and refresh invincibility with upB stalling or ledgehop stalling, then either hold ledge and roll on, or force him to land on stage and punish. The problem with this is there are no safe stall options. If marth upB's while you are vulnerable

firebird stall should be invincible

 

[OninO]

Firebird stall is invincible if done frame perfectly. Practise it if you must but it's more about the timing game. You want to time your ledge grab+refresh such that they have to up-b to the stage. If they drop too low, just roll off the edge, if they're going to the stage you can invincible ledge hop dair. In fact, you can probably shine stall dair or ledge hop dair without invincibility and ride the trade back to stage (make sure you chuck a tech input in just to be safe).

 

[FE_Hector]

This is something that a lot of people don't seem to understand, so let me try to clarify.

If ANYBODY is FORCED to grab onto the ledge to get back up (i.e. Marth sweetspotting his UpB in order to get the ledge perfectly), it's actually really easy to edgeguard them, assuming it is possible to get onto the ledge.

All you actually have to do is WD off of the ledge, and then roll up (L or R), before the move has time to connect with you. Because of the way that the game understands rolls from ledge, it will recognize your character as having control of the ledge practically until your roll is finished. It's really obvious with Marth's roll animation, but this is basically because you're animated as holding onto the ledge for quite some time. A properly timed roll keeps you from having to try anything fancy. You'll have roll invincibility, so their UpB doesn't make a difference, and you'll have control of the ledge as you comfortably roll to safety and laugh as they die. Nothing fancy needed, just a basic game mechanic.


Now, as a Marth main, I personally love recovering high if at all possible. Also as a Marth main, I can give you a suggestion for when he recovers high. The first time you have the chance, full hop up to him but don't do anything. See how he reacts. After that, just jump up again and react to how you're nearly sure he'll react to you. Alternately, you could simply full hop uair him. Getting a dair to force anybody who rises quickly to back off is ridiculously difficult, so that could work. If you don't particularly like uair, a nair or careful bair could do the job just fine.

 

[Hubkun]

Force him to recover low, and do marthkiller. That move is super good, and marth has to do godlike recovery. But watch out if he has a jump, since he can sweetspot with dj and waveland>backthrow gimp

Also a good way to do it, is to stay on ledge, and dropdown rising dair. It always trades and you always win.

Never do the same thing over and over again, since marth can adapt and kill you easy.

Btw, marthkiller is roll toward edge, while on roll animation, let go of the bumper, press z, and leave the stick pressed toward the edge. Done, marth hits your hugeass sphere, you grab edge and he slowly falls down in tears.

 

[CornCobKing]

Also a good way to do it, is to stay on ledge, and dropdown rising dair. It always trades and you always win.

I always try this but somehow screw it up. I've seen crouch-cancel dsmash work recently too, probably only if you're at lower %'s tho.

 

[Hubkun]

I always try this but somehow screw it up. I've seen crouch-cancel dsmash work recently too, probably only if you're at lower %'s tho.

Maybe the marth is spacing his upb to barely grab the edge, making your dair wiff and watching you fall to your doom :v invincible rising bair, dsmash or just a spaced angled tilt puts marth on a worse position.

also you can time your dsmash to hit his upb while your legs are invencible. Its pretty tight timing but the trick i use is to smash the stick when marth does the hua scream lol

 

[CornCobKing]

Nah it hasn't been whiffing, Marth's up-b has been getting priority. Although that's probably due to my positioning more than anything. I've just been doing a shorthop dair on the edge, I'll try actually being off edge next time!

 

[YinglingNick]

light shield is your best friend in edge guarding him

 

[CrackaaJack]

Hey guys, long time lurker, new poster.

I've been palying falco for a little while and I find that edgeguarding spacies and falcon is quite straightforward, but I am having trouble with marth.

Marth recovering high has a lot of tools at his disposal. He can stall midair with sideB, save his double jump, airdodge, fair to intercept your bair or nair, and lasers don't stifle him as much as they do spacies. Laser Fsmash seems to get the job done, but requires a hard commit and that doesn't seem ideal.

When he recovers low, the option I see top players take is to grab the ledge and refresh invincibility with upB stalling or ledgehop stalling, then either hold ledge and roll on, or force him to land on stage and punish. The problem with this is there are no safe stall options. If marth upB's while you are vulnerable, he can set up a gimp or at least put you in a bad position. An option I like to use is to wait on stage, crouch cancel his upB and downsmash after, but that only works at low percentages, and won't hit a perfect sweetspot (I think).

Any tips or responses to my concerns?

Like others said above you are going to have to take a risk. Personally what I find effective is firebird stalling until they are close enough to either side b again, or go for the risky f-air prediction. At this point you can decide to hold ledge and read the marth trying to overpredict you, jump out and back air (if you're a man), or my personal favorite drop down>shine>instant jump +dair out for the spike. All of these options require risk and mindgames. It's something you learn to get really good at when you practice against a Mart, and my practice partner is a Marth main. ^^

 

[FE_Hector]

If he's sweetspotting, grab the ledge, wait for him to hit upB, press R. I promise it works