Edge-canceling upB?

[paxinchristo]

So just out of curiosity, does anyone here know if you can ledge-cancel Luc's upB? And if so, is it at all useful?

 

[Risky]

Do you mean edge canceling it like Fox/Falco Side-B on platforms? I imagine so if you Up-B and drift down to the edge after, you just have to have a little momentum so you actually fall off the edge when you hit it. Useful? Don't think so.

He has some weird thing going on though if you Up-B to the edge at a certain angle he'll bounce off it and reset to air neutral. Happens http://youtu.be/x8tQJhv_ZVo?t=4m11s here when the red Lucario recovers.

 

[paxinchristo]

Yes I meant edge-canceling sorry. Heard the term before and I thought they we're saying "ledge" .

I have noticed this "bounce back to neutral" phenomenon as well...it always threw me off and I considered it a bad thing because it messed up my sweetspotting

If one is prepared for it though, do you think there are any advantages out of it? Perhaps surprise your opponent with an aerial if they're playing too close to the edge?

 

[Risky]

I think if you could consistently do it, it would be excellent as a recovery mixup. You could DT or DTC back to stage after, possibly throw an Aura Sphere, or even air dodge up to a platform if it were Skyworld/Norfair.

I'm not sure if you get your jump back when you do it since you're hitting the stage. I should put some lab work into it.

 

[paxinchristo]

Agreed. I'll have to put in some lab work as well.

 

[Moli]

With edge-canceling lucario has his sweetspot and the cancel spot. I've done it a few times but cant really tell what the angle has to be, i believe it has to be downward right under the actual edge itself. It does in fact give him a jump again though and can be used for multiple uses. I've had a few matches where it saved me because the enemy would edge hog but id edge-cancel into a side-b or into a waveland. I don't know the full on spot on how to hit it, but the few times where i have gotten it off and reacted on time it has saved me and thrown the other player off a great amount. I'll keep looking into how to actually perform it.

So after testing idk if it is a fluke or actually works this way, it seems he has 2 different edge canceling spots. Ive edge-canceled above the ledge and below it. so it resets you to neutral air in 2 different spots. I don't have recording equipment or i would post

 

[paxinchristo]

After watching the video Risky posted at 0.25 speed, I noticed two things: First, the red Lucario was quite close to the edge when he initiated his upB. Second, he went in a straight line downwards at an about 45 degree angle, hitting the ledge but missing the sweetspot somehow (it sort of looked like he hit an inbetween point between the actual ledge and the flat part of the stage).

Whether or not either of these things have any impact in getting the cancel spot I'm not sure, but I thought it's interesting to note.

 

[Moli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfieID18bY this is a guy that does it a few times, from what it seems it looks like right when you grab at the ledge you either pull up or back and is what causes it, done it a few times but not consistently enought to tell if that is what it is

 

[Risky]

When I do it I'm always holding down + towards the stage. I think it has to do with the angle that Lucario hits the edge, and is probably very specific.

 

[paxinchristo]

Interesting...I feel like this may be something which, once you figure out how to do it consistently, could allow someone to really take Lucario to the next level.

20XX Lucario anyone?

 

[Risky]

Lucario has 20XX written all over him. More options than any other character.

 

[paxinchristo]

@ M Moli , I just now saw the edited part of your post.

Was one spot easier to get than the other?

 

[Moli]

the easier spot was right on top of the ledge, i managed to do it 3/10 times where as the one below seemed more glitchy and i got it 1 out of 50 times.

 

[paxinchristo]

Interesting. Though I guess trying to cancel it near the top of the ledge would probably be more useful than below anyways.

 

[Moli]

well yes and no. if you can wavebounce asc into wall jump it could be a pretty nice setup/mindgame, and i think after testing it more it was more of a di issue, when i EC and di down it would appear as if i hit the edge at bottom, whereas when i di forward and up i would EC onto the stage

 

[paxinchristo]

Also, I just thought of another thing that I've always been curious about: sometimes when I use Luc's upB to recover to the edge, I will sometimes hit my opponent if they're standing on stage close to said edge. Often times it won't be anything special, but occasionally they'll get hit with a super weird hit box that sends them sliding across the stage.

Have either of you guys noticed this?

 

[Risky]

He has a weird windbox on ES, it seems to be on the first few hits of it. In training mode put a CPU Ganon with back to the edge, and ES to the edge. You can actually just kill a lot of characters if you hit them with an ES this way as it sends them flying off stage.

 

[Moli]

The wind box I believe is at any hit of the ES it's a matter of pulling away the frame that either you hit or right before you hit. I actually have been able to get used to it to where I know when I'll windbox someone and I actually get a lot of kills by trying to perform it. It's risky...pun intended... But I've used it as a edge guarding tech to gimp at low percentages as it isn't damaged based but based on how fast you pull away. Side note on that, if you sweet spot from the side and a person is on, above, or right below the edge the windbox is usually strongest, so stages that float allow you to gimp a lot of people