Ducking Viability Notes from a G&W

[NouveauRétro]

While collecting data on ducking and such from G&W I figured other characters with awesome ducks might want in on some of this data collection action.
So I'm gonna share my notes with the Wii Fit, Kirby and Jigglypuff Boards.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Lx4EUmrYVU9hX3ExCAsHea3vZvJdJolXAqV63aZnBM/edit?usp=sharing
Here's a viewing link for most grounded moves G&W can duck in the game. I recommend using it as a springboard since we'll share a lot of the moves.

^I created this tier list from the list based off how much ducking affected the character's ground game.
Explanation of Grading
Grading is based off how effective a G&W who often ducks is against these characters when both are grounded in the neutral
A+: Limits pretty much any good grounded approach option against this character and restricts most options in general, forcing the opponent to change how they play completely
A-: Limits grounded approach options heavily, but there is a way for the opponent to beat it but it takes a large risk in being shielded
B+: Limits enough options or good/often used enough options to make the opponent occasionally think twice about their options
B-: Limits some options but multiple simple and noncommital ways to beat it so that they don't have to change neutral much, or is inconsistent against some options
C: Limits one or two decent options that character has, but you have to duck it on hard read and the opponent has other non-duckable options that have an equal chance of being used, or avoids/makes hard to land a/some good options but is inconsistent(damn you animated hurtboxes!)
D: Can avoid a grounded approach or attack option, but it isn't an often used or good option.
F: Useless, can't avoid anything other than maybe an option that's already never used anyway

OK, that's the common section:

CHARACTER SPECIFIC SECTION;KIRBY

I hear your duck is great, and your dtilt is very useful, so your group should get a lot of mileage out of these notes.

Your ducking animation puts you in a different situation than us exactly but you should still be able to use this in actual matches.

EDIT: This is an alternate version of the tier list that takes a bit more into account how important the moves being ducked are(Actually I just put some characters in the wrong tiers when translating from my Duck List -_-)

 

[Dessa]

Can G&W duck-walk?

 

[Pixel_]

Can G&W duck-walk?

no: http://smashboards.com/threads/walljumps-clings-and-crawling-characters-in-smash-4.371011/

 

[Dessa]

Oh, I mean like a quick flick between the walk and crouch. It's a movement tech some Kirbys use for spacing because we can't move by crouching otherwise.

 

[Pixel_]

Ah, I remember seeing that somewhere. I probably did it wrong, but I was able to do it on G&W too, and I don't see why you shouldn't be able to.

 

[TimG57867]

Couple things:

• gets ducked on at the least.
  
• needs to go to the Duck Dynasty. While lasers are the only thing we tend to duck against, him, it's a VERY big deal. Our Up Tilt and his fall speed means we can get a ton of damage off one punish when the game begins and if we do, the crouch becomes critical in forcing him to approach from there on. Otherwise he could be lame and laser spam from a distance.
  
• 's short hop (not grounded) PK Fire and Z-Air whiff while crouching. Seeing how he loves to use those in neutral, that should put a bit higher.
  
• In my experience crouching isn't all that helpful against save for dodging a grab. Could someone elaborate.
• is definitely a Duck Tales tier. Thunder, El Thunder, Arc Thunder, and Thoron all whiff a crouching Kirby.
  
• Wherever is, should be 1 tier lower because he can angle his arrows easily.
• Not sure what you'll be crouching under against a save for maybe a grab or Up Tilt.

There's other things that stick out but those are a few I wanted to point out. Overall all though this is a cool idea. It could be as helpful as our Copy Ability tier list. And for what its worth, gimr made a rather old video about stuff that whiffs Game and Watch. I am pretty sure Kirby can crouch most of those things too:

 

[NouveauRétro]

Couple things:

• gets ducked on at the least.
  
• needs to go to the Duck Dynasty. While lasers are the only thing we tend to duck against, him, it's a VERY big deal. Our Up Tilt and his fall speed means we can get a ton of damage off one punish when the game begins and if we do, the crouch becomes critical in forcing him to approach from there on. Otherwise he could be lame and laser spam from a distance.
  
• 's short hop (not grounded) PK Fire and Z-Air whiff while crouching. Seeing how he loves to use those in neutral, that should put a bit higher.
  
• In my experience crouching isn't all that helpful against save for dodging a grab. Could someone elaborate.
• is definitely a Duck Tales tier. Thunder, El Thunder, Arc Thunder, and Thoron all whiff a crouching Kirby.
  
• Wherever is, should be 1 tier lower because he can angle his arrows easily.
• Not sure what you'll be crouching under against a save for maybe a grab or Up Tilt.

There's other things that stick out but those are a few I wanted to point out. Overall all though this is a cool idea. It could be as helpful as our Copy Ability tier list. And for what its worth, gimr made a rather old video about stuff that whiffs Game and Watch. I am pretty sure Kirby can crouch most of those things too:

Good input!
1. Not counting aerials for now, that's later.
2. At least for G&W's ducking WFT's is kinda inconsistent. I've already noted her on The Duck List as being potentially higher.
3. The Duck List has the list of moves crouched.
4.Yeah, since Yoshi utilt can lead to a kill I didn't put him in F.
5.Yeah, we can duck laser, but he can just keep shooting.

 

[TimG57867]

Good input!
1. Not counting aerials for now, that's later.
2. At least for G&W's ducking WFT's is kinda inconsistent. I've already noted her on The Duck List as being potentially higher.
3. The Duck List has the list of moves crouched.
4.Yeah, since Yoshi utilt can lead to a kill I didn't put him in F.
5.Yeah, we can duck laser, but he can just keep shooting.

On #5 I can see why Mr. Game and Watch would have a problem with that since he has no full proof way to get a ton of damage on Fox at low percent due to his fast fall speed which reduces the utility of crouch in forcing approaches. But for Kirby, done right, a 0% combo can potentially go all the way to 74% (expect 35-50% though). If he wins neutral first (which only takes an Up Tilt off a spot dodge or something like that) he'll be free to crouch camp until Fox is forced to come in due to being able to duck indefinitely. While the crouch doesn't help G&W a ton against a lame Fox it can sure help Kirby.