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Duck Hunt and Rage

WispBae

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Howdy, fellow pack! Your Alpha Female (just teasing), Wispy has come to discuss Sm4sh's rage mechanic, and how it affects the pooch. Rage affects everyone in various ways, some more noticeably than others, so I thought we could talk more about it.

For those who don't know, Rage is a mechanic new and exclusive to Smash 4, that increases your knockback given when you are in the higher percentages. Rage begins at 100% with the weakest amount of extra knockback added to your attacks, and at 150% you gain the maximum Rage knockback bonus. Any extra damage taken will not add more bonus knockback AFTER 150%.

Rage aimed at Duck Hunt Duo

Now, we all know how Duck Hunt plays. I dislike the phrase "zoning character", since it implies camping to be the most effective strategy, but it is true Duck Hunt has an acute focus on controlling space and chip damage, via 3 different projectiles, and a disjointed moveset. Those effective at stage control will very easily rack up damage with little risk to themselves. However, even though poochy has great damage consistency, he does lack in easy to land KO moves. Smashes are predictable and make a distinct noise, Bair's range is average, up-air can hit but can sourspot easy, every smash can sourspot (the dreaded 1 hit "nudge away"), can doesn't kill until almost 200%(center of screen, around 150% near ledge).

You are mostly relying on a hard read on smashes, or a good edgeguard. Not to say doggy can't handle it, or is bad, but let's just say you are going to have to get comfy with your partner/opponent.

This is where Rage really works against puppy, and other "chip damage" characters. With lots of zoning and non-easy (or reliable) KO options, you are going to begin to learn how to gimp or guarantee your smashes hit, because once their damage hits 100%, things get much harder for our lil flock (bird jokes, wooooo...). Projectiles without KO power will only be for controlling space and little bits of damage, as you continue to build their rage. I've easily reached 210% on great players who know how to DI and avoid KO's, since going in is not safe with poochy, and he around to light-ish, mid weight. KO's on DHD without Rage are generally 130% or above. But with Rage, it bumps it down to 100%. Even less with max rage. For example (happened to my poor pup), a Marth tipper from center stage (Smashville) was able to get rid of my stock with 60%, when he was near max rage (around ~130%, if I remember correctly). JEEZ.

Practice KO options, and don't rely too much on projectiles when percentages get higher, is what I would suggest.

Duck Hunt Duo with Rage

Now on the other side of the coin, let's say you enter danger zone. Pooch is no slouch with extra knockback, though it is a double edged sword. Can KO's around 150% from the center of smashville, 130% near the edges, and 90%~100% at the edges and offstage! However, your can will also affect you, and it hurts much worse with rage on yourself. Gunmen will knock people much higher, perfect for up-air set ups or safe can positioning/repositioning. Clay will also knock people higher, great for the quick, follow-up "get off me" fair.

The other piece of the double edged sword comes from Boney's F-Smash. Since you have extra knockback on each shot, it makes connecting each hit consecutively harder, giving them the "nudge of life". You'll want to aim to get the very last shot of F-Smash, to guarantee those early, rage-assisted KO's. This makes the other Smashes also harder to connect, but I suspect F-Smash to be most popular, due to it's silly range.

What'cha guys think? Is doggy's rage make him better or worse? Would you implement a more defensive style knowing you had access to rage, or keep playing the MU normally?
 
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DunnoBro

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Rage definitely makes DHD worse, you do not want to be stuck in a neutral game with poor kill options for long. Generally opponents are in far better positions while raged than you. But it's something we have to work with, and we can benefit from it so we should simply do our best to recognize kill/gimp options as soon as they arise, even if chip damage is also available, and negate the benefit our opponents get from it.
 

WispBae

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Rage definitely makes DHD worse, you do not want to be stuck in a neutral game with poor kill options for long. Generally opponents are in far better positions while raged than you. But it's something we have to work with, and we can benefit from it so we should simply do our best to recognize kill/gimp options as soon as they arise, even if chip damage is also available, and negate the benefit our opponents get from it.
I think the gimping game will be where KO's will be easiest, since pup's recovery is pretty ridiculous, almost as long as Zelda's or Palutena's. Think it may be worth the time to go in training and practice your offstage game.

May need some testing on this, but it also feels like momentum affects his recovery. Dropping down then using the duck flight makes it seem like ducky has to negate momentum for a few frames, then starts going up, as opposed to recovering mid-jump or at the apex of your jumps. May just be me though...
 

Spirst

 
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I think the gimping game will be where KO's will be easiest, since pup's recovery is pretty ridiculous, almost as long as Zelda's or Palutena's. Think it may be worth the time to go in training and practice your offstage game.

May need some testing on this, but it also feels like momentum affects his recovery. Dropping down then using the duck flight makes it seem like ducky has to negate momentum for a few frames, then starts going up, as opposed to recovering mid-jump or at the apex of your jumps. May just be me though...
Hmm, it looks to be the same either way from the small test I just did. If it is the case and I'm not being observant, it's not a huge deal. I agree with practicing the offstage game as that seems to be one of the bigger issues with the DH meta right now. Something I've been doing is kicking a can and bairing it offstage. I bair instead of fairing because when you pop the can, it pops backwards in the direction of the stage as opposed to the blastzone. I've gotten stage spikes like this and have hit people coming back up from the ledge. You can also have a popping can offstage and go out with an aerial if they evade the can. A little input heavy but definitely worth it when mastered which I haven't yet.

DH in rage would be alright were it not for the smashes being even more finnicky as mentioned in the OP. That 'nudge of life' really negates the whole knockback purpose of the rage in the first place.
 

DunnoBro

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The smash hits are effected by knockback, and rage but spacing/charge is by far the greater factor. I will say when opponents start to get to ridiculous percents and you're in rage mode, downsmash in particular becomes woefully unreliable in my experience.

Also I'm almost certain reverse shotting the can like bair/sourspot dash attack is going to be apart of the DHD metagame. Not only does it mix things up with a very worrying trajectory, it hits opponents TO YOU for easier follow-ups/kills. (Mainly uair)
 
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Spirst

 
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It's probably DHs lack of popularity that's the reason for this not being fixed. ZSS had issues with her moves connecting and that was fixed but she was also a more high-profile character than DH. 1.0.5 will hopefully fix this up since it's ridiculous and I will say this everytime it's brought up.
 

DunnoBro

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It's probably DHs lack of popularity that's the reason for this not being fixed. ZSS had issues with her moves connecting and that was fixed but she was also a more high-profile character than DH. 1.0.5 will hopefully fix this up since it's ridiculous and I will say this everytime it's brought up.
His smashes are really odd. Like if you go to training mode and put the speed to 1/2, his smashes do double damage.

I hope it's just an oversight and not an intended character flaw like samus's jab.
 

Spirst

 
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His smashes are really odd. Like if you go to training mode and put the speed to 1/2, his smashes do double damage.

I hope it's just an oversight and not an intended character flaw like samus's jab.
That's extremely strange. It works with any speed other than 1x by the way. What's very interesting is that it does six hits instead of three hence the double damage. Wonder why that is exactly.
 
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Ridel

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May need some testing on this, but it also feels like momentum affects his recovery. Dropping down then using the duck flight makes it seem like ducky has to negate momentum for a few frames, then starts going up, as opposed to recovering mid-jump or at the apex of your jumps. May just be me though...
I've noticed that as well but I can't confirm it so I'll need to do more thorough testing in this matter. But it could just be that I'm so used to Olimar's recovery where it is Pikmin dependent and you need to mash the B button.

I think if it is present then your reasoning is likely the answer.
 
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