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Dual Maining Roy and Robin; Need Advice!

Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
I plan to use both Roy and Robin at an upcoming event on the 22nd. I have a few questions, any and all answers and opinions would be appreciated.
  • What stages are best for Roy?
  • What stages are best for Robin?
  • What are Roy's 5 best matchups?
  • What are Roy's 5 worst matchups?
  • What are Robin's 5 best matchups?
  • What are Robin's 5 worst matchups?
  • What would you do for a Klondike bar?
  • Any habits an opponent will develop facing one that I might be able to take advantage of with the other?
:4feroy::4robinm:

What do you guys think?
 

LochTessMonster

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
36
You'd probably get a bit more information on Roy posting in his relavent section, but I do believe our resident sugoi tactician Raziek has been working on Roy.
I'll list off whatever I can say, hopefully something will be of use!
Raziek made a helpful guide on stages, but suffice it to say, his best are Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, and Delfino.
Here's a link to said guide, http://smashboards.com/guides/survey-the-battlefield-robin-stage-tactics.147/
As for Robin's best matchups, characters who have no projectiles/no way of dealing with zoning will be hit the hardest, these are mostly larger characters such Dk, Bowser, Ganondorf etc. However the unique property of Thoron is that it goes straight through nearly any projectile, so even against characters who have projectiles Robin can gain a good advantage, examples being Link, possibly Luigi, and Mario.
Robin's worst matchups are against rush down characters, most of Robin's moves are slow to come out, even his tilts. I've heard people say that Robin's worst matchup is against Little Mac....a good Little Mac :p. His small stature allows him to almost always avoid arcfire when dashing and his close up game can't be beat.
From my experience playing Robin, people will try to shield Arcfire a lot, obviously, as it's a very powerful move. You're going to want to use it as unpredictably as possible, or in areas where they can't avoid it, for instance when they're landing on the ground. People will often panic at the sight of a stored Thoron, playing very defensively while waiting for you to deploy it. The best course of action for this is to wait a while before using it, or as with Arcfire use it in a position where they won't be able to avoid it, I.E. landing.
That's all I can think of right now, if I think of anything/find anything else i'll make sure to leave another reply!
 

The_Cardinal

We have become a spectacle to the world.
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,207
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CardinalGP
You'd probably get a bit more information on Roy posting in his relavent section, but I do believe our resident sugoi tactician Raziek has been working on Roy.
I'll list off whatever I can say, hopefully something will be of use!
Raziek made a helpful guide on stages, but suffice it to say, his best are Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, and Delfino.
Here's a link to said guide, http://smashboards.com/guides/survey-the-battlefield-robin-stage-tactics.147/
As for Robin's best matchups, characters who have no projectiles/no way of dealing with zoning will be hit the hardest, these are mostly larger characters such Dk, Bowser, Ganondorf etc. However the unique property of Thoron is that it goes straight through nearly any projectile, so even against characters who have projectiles Robin can gain a good advantage, examples being Link, possibly Luigi, and Mario.
Robin's worst matchups are against rush down characters, most of Robin's moves are slow to come out, even his tilts. I've heard people say that Robin's worst matchup is against Little Mac....a good Little Mac :p. His small stature allows him to almost always avoid arcfire when dashing and his close up game can't be beat.
From my experience playing Robin, people will try to shield Arcfire a lot, obviously, as it's a very powerful move. You're going to want to use it as unpredictably as possible, or in areas where they can't avoid it, for instance when they're landing on the ground. People will often panic at the sight of a stored Thoron, playing very defensively while waiting for you to deploy it. The best course of action for this is to wait a while before using it, or as with Arcfire use it in a position where they won't be able to avoid it, I.E. landing.
That's all I can think of right now, if I think of anything/find anything else i'll make sure to leave another reply!
In terms of stages, I would also like to add that some of us Robins, including Raziek, have been liking Town & City as of late, two reason I can give on the top of my head being that the lower ceiling allows for earlier levin uair kos and the platforms allow for more anti-juggle elwind escapes.

Also, while a good Little Mac can be hard to deal with, I wouldn't say he's our hard match-up, especially with how easy it is to gimp him with nair. I would bring in speed thunder though, and maybe firewall.

I plan to use both Roy and Robin at an upcoming event on the 22nd. I have a few questions, any and all answers and opinions would be appreciated.
  • What stages are best for Roy?
  • What stages are best for Robin?
  • What are Roy's 5 best matchups?
  • What are Roy's 5 worst matchups?
  • What are Robin's 5 best matchups?
  • What are Robin's 5 worst matchups?
  • What would you do for a Klondike bar?
  • Any habits an opponent will develop facing one that I might be able to take advantage of with the other?
:4feroy::4robinm:

What do you guys think?
I'll only focus on the last question since LochTessMonster already tried to answer your other questions. Admittedly, this is all theoretical but if, let's say you started Robin first, I can see the opponent letting their guard down in very specific instances since Robin is sometime too slow to go for a proper punish. In other words, there will be moves and openings Roy can exploit more easily than Robin due to his superior speed. On the other hand, I personally think Roy is worse at platform pressuring than Robin since Robin has the better uair as well as access to an aerial command grab.

Also, I'm not a fan of Klondike bars. Just means more for you.
 

LochTessMonster

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
36
In terms of stages, I would also like to add that some of us Robins, including Raziek, have been liking Town & City as of late......
Oh yeah, that's a great stage for Robin. The platforms are a lot more consistent than on Smashville, at least that's what I think, and the stage is overall bigger giving us more of a chance to disengage and reasess our situation.
As for what I said about Little Mac, I personally don't have a problem with him, but with the time i've spent on the Robin boards it seemed like a lot of people have trouble with him. My personal worst is against Jigglypuff. She just constantly escapes my arcfire because she's so light or floats right over it. Thankfully Robin's aerials are longer reached and harder hitting, but with Robin's limited landing options I get rested often.
By the way CCC | Mason, does the tournament you're going to allow customs? The_Cardinal mentioned this but some of Robin's custom moves will greatly help you in many matchups.
I also recommend you check out this guide. There's a section down near the end in schema 3 after you open the spoiler that talks about Matchups against various characters. It's not divided by character, but divided by a specific ability the characters possess which may be problematic to Robin.
 
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The_Cardinal

We have become a spectacle to the world.
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Messages
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Oh yeah, that's a great stage for Robin. The platforms are a lot more consistent than on Smashville, at least that's what I think, and the stage is overall bigger giving us more of a chance to disengage and reasess our situation.
As for what I said about Little Mac, I personally don't have a problem with him, but with the time i've spent on the Robin boards it seemed like a lot of people have trouble with him. My personal worst is against Jigglypuff. She just constantly escapes my arcfire because she's so light or floats right over it. Thankfully Robin's aerials are longer reached and harder hitting, but with Robin's limited landing options I get rested often.
By the way CCC | Mason, does the tournament you're going to allow customs? The_Cardinal mentioned this but some of Robin's custom moves will greatly help you in many matchups.
I also recommend you check out this guide. There's a section down near the end in schema 3 after you open the spoiler that talks about Matchups against various characters. It's not divided by character, but divided by a specific ability the characters possess which may be problematic to Robin.
If you find that Jigglypuff (or characters like Jigglypuff, i.e. Metaknight and Kirby) is constantly escaping and jumping over arcfires then you may want to try running firewall and see how that works for you. Although it lacks the stun of default arcfire, it's faster and has a higher vertical hitbox, making it a better antiair.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
Oh yeah, that's a great stage for Robin. The platforms are a lot more consistent than on Smashville, at least that's what I think, and the stage is overall bigger giving us more of a chance to disengage and reasess our situation.
As for what I said about Little Mac, I personally don't have a problem with him, but with the time i've spent on the Robin boards it seemed like a lot of people have trouble with him. My personal worst is against Jigglypuff. She just constantly escapes my arcfire because she's so light or floats right over it. Thankfully Robin's aerials are longer reached and harder hitting, but with Robin's limited landing options I get rested often.
By the way CCC | Mason, does the tournament you're going to allow customs? The_Cardinal mentioned this but some of Robin's custom moves will greatly help you in many matchups.
I also recommend you check out this guide. There's a section down near the end in schema 3 after you open the spoiler that talks about Matchups against various characters. It's not divided by character, but divided by a specific ability the characters possess which may be problematic to Robin.
CO hates customs. Our TO's have since day 1. I feel Robin at least handles Puff better than Roy, even if it might be a hard matchup. I enjoy the flexibility of that guide, I use CTRL+F to find everything so thank you for mentioning the schema 3 and toggling the spoiler bit.

I hate Little Mac and Yoshi with both characters lol. I would take Yoshi being bad over Yoshi being what he is in this game. Dunno how to deal with it, even if I get all the Yoshi experience in the world it feels like I have zero.

I'll have to digest that guide with my day off tomorrow and see what I can improve, thank you!
 

LochTessMonster

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
36
CO hates customs. Our TO's have since day 1. I feel Robin at least handles Puff better than Roy, even if it might be a hard matchup. I enjoy the flexibility of that guide, I use CTRL+F to find everything so thank you for mentioning the schema 3 and toggling the spoiler bit.

I hate Little Mac and Yoshi with both characters lol. I would take Yoshi being bad over Yoshi being what he is in this game. Dunno how to deal with it, even if I get all the Yoshi experience in the world it feels like I have zero.

I'll have to digest that guide with my day off tomorrow and see what I can improve, thank you!
I'm with you on Yoshi lol, i've always had problems with him. You're probably going to want to go Roy against a good Yoshi, Yoshi's double jump has just enough super armor that he can conveniently escape Arcfire.

Anyways, if you need some practice before your tournament i'm more than glad to help.
 

Zareidriel

zuh-RAY-dree-ole
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,145
NNID
Zareidriei
It's kinda funny how common this is, I've also taken on Roy as my full-time secondary (after an extensive interviewing process and thorough background checks, of course). His aggressive, up-close and personal style just seems to compliment Robin's long-range zoner style, don't ya think?
  • What stages are best for Roy? Hard to say, I don't think Roy has any bad stages per se, you'll more want to counter the opponent's strengths. But I am a fan of Duck Hunt's close side blast zones for those salty early Fsmash kills, and of course, Castle Siege is great not only thematically, but for disrupting the jankier styles and projectiles of the enemy.
  • What stages are best for Robin? Anything not called Smashville and Final D (and not called Castle Siege or Duck Hunt for counters). I tend to go for Battlefield, Town + City, Halberd, and Delfino.
  • What are Roy's 5 best matchups? Now these matchup questions for Roy are kinda tricky. I'm not really sure yet.
  • What are Roy's 5 worst matchups?
  • What are Robin's 5 best matchups? Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, Bowser, Charizard, Jigglypuff
  • What are Robin's 5 worst matchups? Mario, Luigi, Sheik, Pikachu, Ness
  • What would you do for a Klondike bar? Whatever it takes ;]
  • Any habits an opponent will develop facing one that I might be able to take advantage of with the other? My own strategy hasn't quite developed to the level where I'd be able to notice or utilize this, as it's probably more important to develop mastery over the control and use of both characters before beginning these kinds of advanced mindgame strategies, but for somewhere to start, I'd suggest something involving spot dodging, Robin's jabs, and Double-Edge Dance, or maybe something where you train them to roll backwards a lot against Robin, then use a roll-chase read into a dash attack kill as Roy.
 
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