Dr. Mario Match-up thread (PILLS!)

[Berserker.]

became a doctor for whatever reason which changed him in some ways, so yeah.

Discuss vs

 

[Piford]

I'm pretty sure Shulk has a sizable advantage over the Ol' Doc.

Shulk has a very easy time gimping Doc with Jump since he's got the second worst recovery in the game. Doc's main "selling point" over Mario is that he's better at killing, but Shulk can usually handle his better kill power by utilizing Shield and Jump well. Shulk's massive disjoint is great against Doc who has relatively none. Speed is also great against Doc due to Doc's poor mobility. Doc also isn't the heaviest character making him even more susceptible to kills.

Doc's main thing that gives Shulk trouble are his pills. Going to a stage that makes it harder for Doc to pill spam makes it much better for Shulk. I'd imagine avoiding Duck Hunt and Final Destination would be a good idea, while trying to pick Battlefield and Lylat Cruise would be a good idea.

Doc has a lot of trouble touching Shulk, and Shulk can combat his strengths fairly well. I'd say this matchup is probably +2 in Shulk's favor.

 

[Berserker.]

I think Shulk has the +2 advantage over Dr. Mario

Despite being a clone of Mario, the differences between Mario and Dr. Mario allow the match up to be much easier. Dr. Mario has significantly less mobility than Mario overall. Zoning him out will be easy, however, Dr. Mario actually will be spending time trying to zone you with pills. He'll force the approach until he manages to successfully close the gap between you and him. AVOID staying at close quarters against Dr. Mario. His frame data is identical to Mario's so his attacks will almost always outspeed yours. Getting into his zone isn't really that difficult with speed or jump art. Be careful with rushing in with SH N-air because although it can destroy pills, it CAN be shield grabbed and take note that Dr. Mario deals more DPS than Mario. You're better off closing until you reach Shulk's sweetspot: Mid-range. From that zone, you can outspace Mario with any art easily.

Regarding off-stage play, Dr. Mario's recovery is much more gimpable than Mario's. Going back on-stage with Shulk seems simple but be wary of Doctor Tornado off-stage (That **** hits HARD)

My 0.1 cents

 

[WiiDude83]

I think shulk has +2 here was hell. Edge guard him like crazy, vision destroys doc and brings his power right back at him. lots of combos on him, it's a hard match up for doc

 

[Kisatamura]

Shulk isn't as common as Marth and Lucina when it comes to my MU experience, so I'm afraid I don't know too much about Shulk, though I'll agree with people have said here. Frame data wise Doc can punish quickly if Shulk makes a bad move, so make your hits count since Shulk deals more damage overall. Really, I think that as long as you outplay Doc at midrange you'll get the damage lead, but a blocked move will result in Doc rushing you down. I know that most of the people here have said that Doc will usually play defensively, but there are some Docs that won't be as polite to wait for you to come to them. Most of Doc's moves or combos will result in you getting launched away, so plan accordingly as you land.

Either way, avoid Doc's Tornado, UpB, Bair and any of his smash attacks at high percents if you're not already in Shield. Dair can gimp offstage, which isn't too good for Shulk.

I'm not too knowledgeable about the MU since the Shulks I face are either okay or really good, but range has always been a problem for Mario and Doc. I'd go 35:65 in Shulk's favor, but then again the only thing I know about Shulk is that against a good one it's an uphill battle.

 

[CWBY]

i don't see that many dr. mario players, but it's definitely one of my easier matchups as a player because of what piford mentioned: it's really easy to gimp him. shulk has both smash and jump to help him in that regard, so chances are that if i can get doc off of the stage, i can take a stock with fair or nair. i haven't really done that much offline play for smash 4, so most of my experience playing against dr. mario is on fd/omega stages.

at least on fd, i know jump helps me a lot if the dr. mario is trying to zone me with pills, since his jump height is such that he's most likely not going to be able to get up to my height. sometimes i use speed to help me approach, so i can run in and shield the pills while they're coming.

 

[Artryuu]

Seen this matchup commonly more than bowser jrs. or samuses (incredible btw), and I pretty much played my doc against Jerm. Definitely a mistake done by Shulk and doc will go in to punish him but Shulk range makes up for it and he is quickly gimped. =(
Most of it has been covered up though.

Bringing up customs... customs help doc against Shulk and definitely raises from a moderate disadvantage against Shulk to a slight disadvantage...at least from 35:65 in Shulk's favour to a 40:60 still in Shulk's favour xD.
Fast pills feels just like megaman's pellets but with more range. Doc can easily camp in fast pills and let Shulk come to him (though he has to be awared of Shulk's way of coming.)
Doc can easily gimp Shulk with the breezy cape with no need of going off-stage. He can just shield the airslash and cape it. The gust of the breezy cape makes Shulk not even snap on the ledge, the gust pushes him so you just gotta be aware of that.
And if Doc has the soaring tornado custom, he can do a wall of breezy capes offstage against Shulk and not worry about his terrible recovery, the soaring tornado helps him get back on (plus it also kills in case the breezy capes didn't xD.)
Other than that, Shulk doesn't need to worry about him. Shulks aerials with proper spacing do a great job in this matchup.

 

[Virum]

I'll quickly quote what I said in the Mario thread:

Oh and I'm not sure if this would be the right place but chiming in about the Doc match-up too (since Drumr also plays a pretty mean Doc), Shulk wins that match-up rather assuredly (70-30 honestly). Doc loses out on quite a few of the key things that allow Mario to perform in the match-up. Shulk can both outpace and outspace him in any art not called shield (where he can still outspace him easily) and he has an even easier time killing Doc due to Doc's awful recovery.

The match-up becomes a bit easier for Doc with customs (that Down B is absurd) and despite the character having the superior frame data he simply cannot keep up with Shulk at all which wouldn't be too bad if it weren't for the fact that obviously Shulk has vastly more range than Doc.

 

[Deleted member]

This match-up is easy all things considered.

I think Mario can give Shulk a hard time because he has more combo potential, especially with his down throw to up tilt combo.
Dr. Mario doesn't have that here since he is mainly about power; down throw to up tilt isn't as effective here. His differences as a clone is an overall liability to Dr. Mario's success; he has the power, but he is lacking in other areas. He isn't as fast as Mario to really punish Shulk and his more powerful attacks have a bit more start-up to them.
The worst offender for Dr. Mario is his recovery. His side B doesn't give him slight altitude like Mario's, his down B has too much end-lag compared to Luigi's, and his up B doesn't give him as much distance as Mario's (I think).
Due to Dr. Mario's lack of speed and lack of good set-ups, Shulk isn't going to get punished as much for missing an attack like his Slit Edge (side smash). Shulk can be pretty dominate against Dr. Mario with his tilts anyway, with his up tilt being able to juggle the doc and his down silt being able to space him.
As for Shulk's Arts, the main ones will be of course Jump and Speed. Speed will help close Shulk in on Dr. Mario, Jump will exploit Dr. Mario's awful recovery even further. Buster doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I wouldn't advise it at lower percents.

Overall, it's quite clear that Shulk has the advantage. I say it's 65:35 Shulk. There is so much Shulk can do and little the doc can do. If I was a Dr. Mario main, I would switch to a different character for this match-up, one that can give Shulk a hard time.

 

[Macchiato]

@ S.F.L.R_9 yew played my doc a sizable amount when I mained him. What are your thoughts on the MU. Imo it's not that bad, shulk does out range but doc can can punish really well and combos him easily. Doc also kills him pretty early. I'd say 55-45 to shulk

 

[Berserker.]

You could say that Doc can gimp Shulk. That's definitely something to watch out for, but Shulk can do the same to Dr. Mario and it's a lot safer for Shulk since Jump allows him to recover back on stage really easily.

Also, Doc can combo and punish. Not arguing against that. It's just not easy to combo or punish Shulk when he's aiming to outpspace you instead of going up close. Because of Dr. Mario's short range and his lack of mobility (which allowed "Mario" to punish Shulk effectively), he needs to work for it.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

@ S.F.L.R_9 yew played my doc a sizable amount when I mained him. What are your thoughts on the MU. Imo it's not that bad, shulk does out range but doc can can punish really well and combos him easily. Doc also kills him pretty early. I'd say 55-45 to shulk

I don't think I've played your Doc enough to give an analysis that I'm confident in and everyone else has already said everything I would say. I think it's 60:40 Shulk.

 

[Lysergic]

It seems Shulk has a decent amount of lag after most of his attacks and a lot of his attacks are slow and predictable to me. Typically I'll try and position my Doc about mid range and capitalize with a grab combo after a Shulk attacks and misses or I shield. Grabs are my main priority when playing Shulk because I'm afraid of his down B. Other than that I try and get Shulk off the stage as much as possible and either edge guard with down b and dair or get a cape kill when Shulk tries to recover. I typically don't have problems with Shulk players as long as I'm patient. Dr. Mario's who rush Shulk will probably get wrecked though.

Besides that at high percent watch out for a shielded Dr. Mario because they will attempt to upB reverse kill you if you get to close. Be cautious of a lot of pills from Doc early in the match up as well. Other than that I don't have much more advice because quite frankly I don't have a ton of Shulk MU experience. Good luck!

 

[Ultinarok]

Fun fact: Vision on an Up-B using Doc recovering is practically a guaranteed kill every time. Even if it doesn't outright kill him, it puts him past safe recovery range. So two or three hits in Jump and then one Vision when he tries to make it back seals his fate, and deals with Up-B's practically nonexistent start-up. Trying to challenge Up-B with an aerial besides fair is generally not effective because of this, but Vision can give great success. Even outside of that, this match-up is definitely in Shulk's favor. Pills aren't even that effective when you approach with Jump and soar right over them or use Speed and rush him down before he can use more than one or two.

 

[Denzill7]

Doc has decent down throw combos and a great Up-B OoS, but he gets shut down by Shulk's better range. Typically Docs wait until someone does something laggy and punish accordingly, but I think Shulk's too fast for that. Combine that with how easy it is to edgeguard him, and the MU's heavily in Shulk's favor. Basically Doc has to punish everything perfectly and be really good at mixing up how he recovers. It's 65-35 Shulk.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

If there's a move that I'm certainly terrified to confront with when using the good ol' Doctor, is Shulk's vision. No matter what move, you WON'T be able to avoid it, regardless of what move you use.

The Up-B move is certainly something that you don't want to do as often as possible while facing the Monado Boy.

This comes from a Dr.Mario mainer that has had problems with many Shulks online.