Dr. Mario Competitive Thoughts

[StaffofSmashing]

What happened to the Upthrow tech from Melee?

 

[Bobert]

You can jump out of it after the "spike".

 

[Sir Tundra]

Really? that explains why a lot of people were able to escape by the time I was about to get another grab.

 

[Crome]

Dr.Mario Chain Grab Tech

Really? that explains why a lot of people were able to escape by the time I was about to get another grab.

Really?

 

[Uniit]

Hey guys !

So i'm making this thread to discuss on our favorite doctor's approachings options (like the title says, wow). The goal here is to compile informations about approaches, pros and cons of each options, related to opponents (which options on what opponent) or stages, and so.

That's why I, or maybe we, need the (doctor) community to discuss on this subject, and objectively finds and collect data on it. It's not about what approach is the best, it's to help people making their own choices based on fact (or impressions maybe !). I will of course give credit to whoever make a good point.

To begin, let me ask some (subjectives) questions, just to know what you guys think :

- Are pills (Neutral B) a good asset of Dr. Mario when it comes to approach ? What are the mains use of this move ?
- Which is the most effective : to approach or to be approached (by your opponent) ?
- Same question : Approach airborn or grounded ?
- Risk/Reward : approach with a combo starter or safe move ?
Feel free ask any question too !

Then, you can discuss on options, like this :

SH to Nair
+ Nair suffer from minimal landing lag (12 frames) and hit for pretty long.
+ The doc can land in front or behind the opponent, and mess with your opponent prediction.
+ Reverse kick make this approach interresting : hitting with the begin deals 6% but doesn't launch your opponent very far, so it can string with various follow-up. The end deals up to 9%, lauch more but the move lag can end before touching the ground, if well timed, for a immediate grab or whatever.
+ Works well when a opponent is standing on a platform, maybe with a Full Jump.
+ You can fake one with a early timed Nair to Bair (landing behind) or the tornado (Down B).
- Can be read if you aim for the end of the kick, making it predictable.
- Not the move with the best range, and this make you land next to your opponent, and that's not always a good idea.
- Shield Grab is the easy solution to counter it.

That was a example ! But please note that i'm not a native english speaker, so pardon my (terrible ?) english ! That said, if you want to correct some mistake or, even, to rewrite it, you will be given credit for it !

So.... let discuss !

 

[Uniit]

Reserved in case of expansion.

 

[Kisatamura]

Pills have been used (Or in Shroomed's use of Dr. Mario) to generally cover yourself as you rush down the opponent since they bounce and it's easier to hit somebody with them. Unfortunately this isn't Melee anymore so Dr. Mario rushing the opponent down is riskier due to lack of l-cancels, compared to Mario who can go aggro without any fear. Most people that play Doc use the pills to force approaches, but Doc can do both. It's just that forcing approaches with pills are safer :V

Besides running and immediately shielding while approaching, Dr. Mario can reverse air rush his bair, which has decent range as long as you space it correctly. It's unsafe at very low percents, but bair is one of Doc's safest approaches, since if you space it well then the opponent can't grab you.

 

[Opana]

Roll Canceled Pivot Grab with Dr Mario

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the topic title says it all.

Pardon the screw ups and qualityl

 

[Xinc]

I like your phone ringtone.

Can you help clarify which is the roll canceled pivot and which is the regular pivot? I'm having trouble following.

 

[Opana]

I like your phone ringtone.

Can you help clarify which is the roll canceled pivot and which is the regular pivot? I'm having trouble following.

For a pivot grab, you need to initiate a dash and input a turn during said dash while simultaneously pressing grab.

The roll canceled pivot grab is initiated by starting a roll, forward or backward, followed by canceling it early in the roll animation with a grab. However, to pivot this, roll a direction and input grab + the opposite direction.

I realize now in the mechanics thread on the competitive board they've recently been talking about this, meaning I was late lol. It's possible with everyone, although someone like dorf doesn't produce a slide so it'd just be either to dash quickly and grab the other way, essentially just turning a around a slight distance from them.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Is it possible to do this OoS?

 

[Opana]

Is it possible to do this OoS?

Nah, doesn't work for some reason if the shield was up at all prior.

 

[sawp]

I'm curious if you've gotten good at the roll cancelled grab or not. I can't hit it consistently at all, the timing seems so hard to be, harder than even wavedashing initially.

 

[Opana]

I can pull it off pretty consistently, but it serves little use with Ganon, my main.

 

[Malkasaur]

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, as I don't really pay attention to these threads, but I thought I would share a possible kill setup I found with Doc. I found that a seemingly reliable way of killing with Doc is to grab at around 100%, pummel to 120%, then down thrown into Up B. I found this in training mode, and it seems to work against any character, however I haven't tried this against an actual person. Just thought I'd share.

 

[TTTTTsd]

If the game registers this as a true combo that's pretty cool. You could probably omit the pummel at higher %s I imagine, I'll try this tonight and see if I can get a video out on it (with proper credit given) and see what I can get from it. He already has D-Throw to Fair too as a true combo on certain chars at high %.

 

[DrNerdPHD]

does dr Mario have edge guard if so how do use us it and what is it?

 

[M@v]

Edgeguarding come down to reading the opponents recovery (aka guessing what you're opponent is going to do). Is he going to go high? Is he going to go for the ledge? etc.etc.

The best move for intercepting people off stage is Doc's back air. Easy to time and easy to get out. Down b can be really good too but make sure you don't kill yourself with it! Its just as good on stage. If you catch them coming off the ledge and hit them with down b, it can knock them right back off stage. Upairs and nairs are useful as well.

Last but not least, the cape. You can cape a lot of recovery moves that send them the other way, and a guaranteed death. Example; cape little mac's side b or links upb as they try to reach the ledge, and they will get turned around and fall helplessly to their deaths.

 

[Astronut]

After some initial testing, this seems legit. Interested to see what others think of it.

 

[Will_]

It's character dependent, for both the combo % range and the % range that it will actually kill at. I usually do it around 70%+ for guaranteed dmg when I know I can't follow up uair well.

 

[DrNerdPHD]

thx for the help

 

[Exegguter]

Cape, pill, bair

 

[Kapus]

Depending on the character, I like to use pills in an attempt to gimp their recoveries.

 

[Thegopher]

I like to dair.

 

[Doctor_Mario]

When it comes to any slowish-medium character, I'm not very good at approaching. What I'm doing right now is slide kicking (right + a) and in attempt to kick them in the air. But they catch on very quickly and they know when to shield and stuff.

Approaching in the air is tough for me because I usually fight players that have a smash attack that have a big range. It's not as effective either.

I've been trying to do a pill + sliding kick duo but it's not working very well. Tips?

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think you have to be careful when approaching, IMO I recommend camping and forcing them to approach, but if you have to go in, try and use megavitamins to liberally cover your approach, and slowly work your way in. This character struggles to get in but when he's in he's in.

But honestly, your best bet is throwing vitamins until they come at you, most players will eventually.

 

[Dobbston]

Pretty much all of Dr. Mario's moves are good offstage, even Up B since you can reverse it after hitting your opponent. Also, fast falling a Dair offstage is pretty good on stages where you can wall jump.

 

[Kisatamura]

Everyone has pretty much said what moves Doc can use to edgeguard, so I'll just do an analysis of all of them. One thing to remember about Doc's edgeguarding game: be careful and don't get hit, since your recovery sucks and you might fall if you lose your second jump.

Especially be careful if your opponent tries to recover from below: against characters like Marth or Falcon with their UpBs, you run the risk of getting spiked off the edges. I usually throw a pill at them or bair/dair them since these two moves have decent speed/or hitboxes for attacking opponents below the edge.

So.. (In no particular order, but I listed the ones I use frequently first)

Bair: Solid move, comes out quick and sends the opponent at a decent angle. It becomes a kill move at around 120-ish, so get used to using this often. You can also kind of chain two of these a la Jigglypuff's WOP at low percents on certain characters, though you run the risk of using your second jump and not being able to recover.

Fair: Can be used in a similar manner to Mario's meteor. It's powerful, being able to kill early around the edge, but you run the risk of getting hit out of it so you'll need to time it right. It's also somewhat risky to use against characters with counters.

Cape: Standard edgeguard tool. Turns them the other way and gives them a boost in that direction. Combine it with a bair.

Dair: Drill kick. If you get it in deep, your opponent is going to get knocked away while also losing horizontal movement due to the multi-hit property of dair. Also, dair can stage spike if you hit it the other way.

UpB: I don't use this too often, but if your opponent doesn't expect you doing anything when you jump near them, you can UpB them away, like this

Spoiler

Pills: You'll need to stand a bit away from the edge so that your pills don't bounce. Either way, pills offstage are good for controlling the opponent's recovery, so that you can use something like cape or a down smash.

Tornado: Somewhat risky since you'll need to mash, but you can use the tornado as a sort of "wall" to knock them away. Or depending on how lucky you are with the hitbox, this;

Spoiler

Uair: If it hits late from behind (Think Ganon's uair in melee), it'll send the opponent in the opposite direction. If used from the front, you can combo into another uair... bair might be better than this.

Nair: You can use the nair to hit people with it's long hitbox, but it's priority seems weaker than it did in Melee. Can be used as a sort of a wall.

 

[LuCypha X]

But is it really a kill set up? Because it connects but only with the sour spot....

 

[JipC]

If the game registers this as a true combo that's pretty cool. You could probably omit the pummel at higher %s I imagine, I'll try this tonight and see if I can get a video out on it (with proper credit given) and see what I can get from it. He already has D-Throw to Fair too as a true combo on certain chars at high %.

Ihave only gotten dthrow to fair like at max 3 times even since the 3DS release
I dont play Doc a whole bunch in this game but it seems super unreliable because of the lack of histsun

 

[Chuva]

I've tried it before and it only connected with the sourspot (therefore not killing)

 

[Silent Assasin]

1. Like what TTT said, using the pills is the safest approach. The way the pill bounces gives you a little time to evaluate how your opponent responds to it, which can help you pick a good move to retaliate. 2. One approach I found more helpful than I thought was to short-hop backwards and use the down special to knock-off the opponent. This approach is somewhat unsafe but, it is a decent way to throw off the opponents' approach. 3. Reverse aerial b-air attacks are pretty useful when an opponent is at low percentages.

 

[KenMeister]

I usually like to use RAR'd bairs as a way of moving myself in, or using SH'd pills from a distance to cover my approaches. Dr. Mario also has a good Shield dash game, since his dash animation isn't nearly as long as other characters (like Marth), so against projectile characters like Villager or DHD, I don't feel like I have too much trouble as long as I take my time and just perfect shield every projectile.

 

[KenMeister]

I normally use bair close to the stage, since Doc can't really go too far or deep, and when they roll onto the stage, downsmash pretty much covers up every option.

 

[Dwiese1998]

Hey KenMeister, I'm pretty sure I faced you tonight in for glory! My name is Dylan and my player title was "The Doctor" you've got a mean doc! A good game it was!

 

[Dobbston]

Dr. Mario also has a good Shield dash game, since his dash animation isn't nearly as long as other characters (like Marth), so against projectile characters like Villager or DHD, I don't feel like I have too much trouble as long as I take my time and just perfect shield every projectile.

Full hopped and short hopped capes OOS are pretty good.

 

[Xinc]

I usually full jump pill rush them while advancing or retreating towards them to put them off their balance.