Downthrow off the stage into?

[OnStrings]

Everytime I downthrow a fastfaller off the stage, I feel like I let them back on for free. If they try to go high, then I of course can punish them, but when they double jump low and sweetspot the ledge, I freeze up and don't really know what to do. Occasionally I'll wavedash backwards and poke them with Dtilt, but that only works sometimes (like when they don't doublejump sweetspot). Most of the time I'm too close to the edge and I'd rather walk back a little (is this necessary?)

What are my options here? I've seen videos of a marth downthrowing falcon off, and as the falcon tries to sweetspot, marth faces the stage, wavedashes off and F-airs him, but I feel like that's not safe/reliable

Edit: And for spacie recoveries, I know m2k dtilts first and adapts afterwards. Is that generally the thing to do? I've been just timing jabs, but jab doesn't cover a firefox to the ledge.

Edit: sorry im just full of questions lol. Can marth not crouch cancel illusions? Whenever I dtilt and miss, while i'm still crouching I get hit by it and I still get sent flying even at ~10%

 

[Twhy]

I don't think there is really any textbook thing to do but reverse dolphin might work for the low recovery? I'm a scrubby but it seems reasonable.

 

[harMoNiC]

If you read that they're going to go low and try to sweetspot quickly enough, then you might be able just to run off the ledge and DJ into fair to gimp them. This will work much better versus Falco because his Up-B doesn't have a hitbox so you don't have to worry as much about spacing the fair and he also can't go as far down since his Up-B has a shorter range than Fox's.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

dthrow to dtilt covers a lot of options, even on stage since it'll cover the missed tech/tech in place/tech in. I'd recommend tossing out a dtilt and then after that it depends on what character you're playing. For spacies you can wait there and counter the fire fox/jab illusion as all their options are pretty easily covered. Falcon can't truly sweetspot the ledge so you can take advantage of this by dtilting, fsmashing, or even doing a wavedash off into dj dair (see pp vs m2k mlg 2014)

 

[Sycorax]

If they keep going for sweet spots with their double jump, you can Down Throw into run off into FF Fair. It should catch any fastfaller before they can jump up and grab the ledge. You can double jump -> up-B after the Fair to recover. The up-B might even hit them lower or stage spike. This won't always work. They can account for it, but do it sometimes to keep them honest or to counteract them choosing this option every time.

 

[harMoNiC]

If they keep going for sweet spots with their double jump, you can Down Throw into run off into FF Fair. It should catch any fastfaller before they can jump up and grab the ledge. You can double jump -> up-B after the Fair to recover. The up-B might even hit them lower or stage spike. This won't always work. They can account for it, but do it sometimes to keep them honest or to counteract them choosing this option every time.

Side-B can be a good alternative to mix up the timing, too.

 

[ItWasAMindgame!]

A really good option from d-throw off stage against any fastfaller, namely falcon/falco/fox, is to ASAP, WD off of the stage (don't grab the ledge) and do a f-air like #SplitsOnTrees said. I would like to add though, that the window for this working most effectively is at low to mid-low percents.
My guess would be from 0-50ish, but I'm not completely certain..
But again, at low percents, when you do the f-air towards the stage, if your enemy jumps for the ledge, it'll swipe them away from it, then I noticed that you can do an u-air which has enough hitstun to kill (remember at low percents, even a tippered u-air won't have enough knockback to bring them up on the stage, so they'll go up a little bit, but plummet to their death), even if that is somehow not enough, you can also use your up-b to not only recover, but interrupt their recovery.
Another useful option from d-throw off stage is f-tilt, and of course, the well known d-tilt frame trap.

 

[AirFair]

I always thought the spike would work if they jumped. WD back for a fair sounds pretty good too.

 

[ItWasAMindgame!]

I always thought the spike would work if they jumped. WD back for a fair sounds pretty good too.

The spike works especially well against Falcon

 

[La_Popo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna80MbcAAc

you might have heard of this match, 3:10