Down Throw to Wolf Flash (Side B) True combo percentages *Updated Through Byleth 1/29/20*

Qualudes

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Hey everyone,

I spent a few hours going through the entire cast and gathering data to reliably hit one of the most stylish combos in the game; Dthrow to Wolf Flash. I made a lot of interesting observations along the way that I would like to share with those interested in playing Wolf.

Wolf Flash was personally a very hard move for me to wrap my head around. I didn't understand why it had roughly a 37-40 degree angle instead of the more linear one we usually associate with spaceys, why it's hit boxes are so ambiguous, and most importantly what the hell is it supposed to be used for aside from recovery? I am pretty sure most people reading this immediately recognized the moves potential as a read-based platform punish, and that was working for me for the first few weeks of the game, but people have gotten wise to Wolf's shenanigans it seems. I saw a video from Leffen showing that the angle of Wolf Flash could be altered, and that it could true combo from dthrow, but there is no data that I am aware of that shows the percentages and other weird properties of the move interacting with the entire cast. So here you go. All true combo percentages for the combo will be shown below.

Before I get to the meat and potatoes, I should first let you know that the move took me a while to get the muscle memory down to do it consistently. Once I learned to put my faith in the buffer system it became extremely easy and satisfying to pull off. The most important aspect of building the muscle memory into your hands is learning how to consistently perform the lowest angle possible of Wolf Flash. This is imperative to the true combo on almost the entire cast. There are only a couple of exceptions to this rule and even in those cases it is still probably better to just always go for the lowest angle instead of trying to make a hard read to get the spike hitbox. The tolerances on the move are just too tight, and landing a hit is always better than not with a move that is this laggy. More on that later.

The data below will show multiple percentage ranges for every character in the cast. The reason for this is that Wolf Flash has both a spike hitbox, and a launching hitbox. Both are very good for different reasons, and having an idea of which one you are going to land is important in planning your next steps in the fight. So for each character you will see the acronym SB (Spike Box) and LB (Launch Box) to denote which hit you are going to get at those percentages. At the end of the data section I will include some observations that I made about the move during testing. The percentages represent the opponents damage prior to being thrown and do not take into consideration rage or DI. Dthrow has so little knockback growth that the numbers should yield a pretty good range of effective percentages for all characters however. Alright, here we go:

1. Mario: SB 50-73, LB 44-49 / 74-79
2. Donkey Kong: SB 52-58, LB 35-51 / 89-99
3. Link: SB 53-74, LB 31-39* / 46-52 / 75-80
4. Samus: SB 39-85, LB 33-38 / 86-92
4e. Dark Samus: SB 39-85, LB 35-38 / 86-92
5. Yoshi: SB 49-79, LB 39-48 / 80-87
6. Kirby: SB 36-64, LB 30-35 / 65-71
7. Fox: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 41-62
8. Pikachu: SB 52-67, LB 42-51 / 68-80
9. Luigi: SB 38-71, LB 30-37 / 72-76
10. Ness: SB 37-67, LB 30-37 / 68-74
11. Captain Falcon: SB 62-78, LB 79-88
12. Jigglypuff: SB 25-54, LB 24 / 55-63
13. Peach: SB 31-62, LB 28-30 / 63-71
13e. Daisy: See Peach
14. Bowser: SB 64-90, LB 37-63 / 91-99
15: Ice Climbers: SB 41-70, LB 35-40 / 71-77
16. Shiek: SB 46-65, LB 39-45 / 66-72
17. Zelda: SB 37-70, LB 29-36 / 71-77
18. Dr. Mario: SB 50-73, LB 44-49 / 74-79
19. Pichu: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 31-41**
20. Falco: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 49-72
21. Marth: SB 46-75, LB 40-45 / 76-81
21e. Lucina: See Marth
22. Young Link: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 31-44 / 54-77
23. Ganondorf: SB 50-88, LB 89-95
24. Mewtwo: SB 36-72, LB 34-35 / 73-78
25. Roy: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 57-82 (seems Techable at 57, but not at 58)
25e: Chrom: See Roy
26. Mr. Game & Watch: SB 32-61, LB 26-31 / 62-67
27. Meta Knight: SB 47-62, LB 29-46 / 63-73
28. Pit: SB 41-79, LB 34-40 / 80-86
28e. Dark Pit: See Pit
29. Zero Suit Samus: SB 49-63, LB 42-48 / 64-73
30. Wario: SB 54-81, LB 47-53 / 82-89
31. Snake: SB 60-84, LB 51-59 / 85-91
32. Ike: SB 57-82, LB 49-56 / 83-90

POKEMON TRAINER
33. Squirtle: SB 28-60, LB 26-27 / 61-66
34, Ivysaur: SB 38-76, LB 32-37 / 77-85
35. Charizard: SB 41-80, LB 36-40 / 81-89

36. Diddy Kong: SB 62, LB 34-48*** / 51-61 / 63-77
37. Lucas: SB 37-66, LB 67-74
38: Sonic: SB 43-60, LB 61-70
39. King Dedede: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 35-89 (Seems Techable earlier in the damage range, avoid using before 40 or so)
40. Olimar: SB 43-61, LB 35-42 / 62-70
41. Lucario: SB 55-63, LB 46-54 (Seems Techable) / 64-81
42. Rob: SB 40-82: LB 31-39 (Seems Techable) / 83-90
43. Toon Link: SB 45-71, LB 38-44 / 72-78
44. Wolf: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 52-78
45. Villager: SB 35-66, LB 29-34 (Seems Techable) / 67-74
46. Mega Man: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 35-48 (CAREFUL Techable through entire range) / 58-69 (Still may be techable)
47. Wii Fit Trainer: SB 37-73, LB 30-36 / 74-80
48. Rosalina & Luma: SB 32-68, LB 27-31 / 69-76
49. Little Mac: SB 69-71, LB 63-68 / 72-79
50. Greninja: SB 44-68, LB 41-43 / 69-73

MII FIGHTER
51. Mii Brawler: SB 58-69, LB 52-57 / 70-79
52. Mii Swordfighter: SB 49-76, LB 42-48 / 77-82
53. Mii Gunner: SB 48-76, LB 41-47 / 77-83

54. Palutena: SB 44-67, LB 35-43 (Seems Techable) / 68-74
55. Pac Man: SB 42-68, LB 35-41 (Techable) / 69-79
56. Robin: SB 51-79, LB 43-40 (Seems Techable) / 80-86
57. Shulk: SB 58-70, LB 47-57 (Seems Techable early in the range) / 71-80
58. Bowser Jr: SB 48-77, LB ~32-47 (Seems Techable early in the range) / 78-86
59. Duck Hunt: SB 39-70, LB 28-38 (Techable) / 71-79
60. Ryu: SB 48-77, LB 43-47 (Techable) / 78-83
60e. Ken: See Ryu
61. Cloud: SB IS NOT TRUE, LB 59-76 (DThrow sends cloud at an extremely long and low trajectory for some reason)
62. Corrin: SB 57-72, LB 48-56 / 73-80
63. Bayonetta: SB 59-64, LB 48-58 / 65-73
64. Inkling: SB 42-74, LB 41 / 75-84
65: Ridley: SB 57-80, LB 32-56 (Seems Techable early in the range) / 81-90
66. Simon: SB 67-69, LB 61-66 / 70-82
66e. Richter: SB 68-69, LB 61-67 / 70-85
67. King K. Rool: SB 59-98, LB 37-58 (Techable early in range) / 99-107 (Inconsistently hits at 108)
68. Isabelle: SB 39-67, LB 33-38 (Probably Techable) / 68-76
69. Inceneroar: SB 57-82, LB 83-88
70. Piranha Plant: **Only can hit with DI in above ~50%. Not worth going for imo**
71. Joker: SB 42-72, LB 40-41 / 73-78
72 Hero: SB 60-77, LB Untrue 43-56, LB 57-59 / 78-83
73. Banjo & Kazooie: SB 72-79, LB 59-71, 80-86 ****
74. Terry: SB 49-75, LB 44-48 / 76-80
75. Byleth: SB 52-75, LB 43-51 / 76-80

Observations:

Most of the cast is highly susceptible to this combo. Most have an effective damage range of nearly 50% which makes it a very versatile and reliable way of either racking damage or ending stocks early with an offstage suicide once it's mastered. Knowing the matchup is crucial in gauging when and how to apply it however, and some characters that are susceptible to the true combo in the training room are not likely to get hit at early percentages in an actual fight. Keep that in mind.

The general trend with this move is that it has a narrow window in early percentages where it will hit and you will get the LB, a very wide window where you will get the SB, and a final somewhat narrow window where the LB comes back online again. I do not recommend going for the early LB window ever. On most of the cast it is somewhere between 33-43% and at that range Dthrow - dash attack is a thing, or Uthrow into juggles is a thing. This should exclusively be utilized above 55% as a general rule IMHO.

Character Specific Notes:
*Link is really freakin weird. The combo seemed to come online as early as 31-39%, but I think this is a false true combo because his angle is so shallow off the dthrow that anyone should be able to tech it.
**DO NOT EVEN TRY THIS AGAINST PICHU. The rat is too small to hit with this setup. I must have tried for 20 minutes to no avail.
*** Diddy Kong also interacts with dthrow in very weird ways below 50% or so. His angle is extremely shallow, yet the combo counter was indicating true combos from 34-48. Do not trust the training room alone.
**** I cannot recommend attempting this against Banjo. He flies really 'flat' off of dthrow and will be able to escape it with even slight DI away or down and away. He has a less predictable trajectory than any other heavyweight in my experience testing this out.

In closing, I hope this helps anyone who is interested. Please put this information to the test on your own because I am not a pro and I may have made mistakes along the way. The more people testing this out and having fun with Wolf the better. See you all back in Smash.

-Qualudes
 
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Sean²

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Thanks for this. I would have probably never taken the time to lab this out on someone like, Wii Fit Trainer.
 

Qualudes

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Just to update, I put this to the test online last night and wow. Having a notepad with likely percentages is a huge help before the match starts. Numerous people simply rage quit when they were hit by this combo twice in a single match. I also noticed that certain characters, specifically one lucina and one marth that I fought were a little more slippery than I expected. I think DI'ing down and away with those characters may be a way to either escape the combo entirely or drastically reduce the window when it is effective. Still, what a satisfying move to hit consistently.
 

Chiroz

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Just to update, I put this to the test online last night and wow. Having a notepad with likely percentages is a huge help before the match starts. Numerous people simply rage quit when they were hit by this combo twice in a single match. I also noticed that certain characters, specifically one lucina and one marth that I fought were a little more slippery than I expected. I think DI'ing down and away with those characters may be a way to either escape the combo entirely or drastically reduce the window when it is effective. Still, what a satisfying move to hit consistently.
I am sorry to inform you that with DI away this is escapable by like 80-90% of the cast. Because of the high risk involved in this (SDing) it’s not worth doing against any opponent that has the possibility of escaping it “hoping” for bad DI.

It would be good if someone could get a list of chars where this is 100% guaranteed. I can tell you 2: Peach/Daisy and Samus. From my early testings on day 1 it seemed to be dependent on a mix of gravity + max fall speed (so basically how “floaty” a char is, where more floaty = less possibility to DI away and end up too low).



I am speaking about going for an SD kill here. If you’re just going for onstage damage, it’s low risk, mid reward as the worse that can happen is that they tech away/in and get some kind of tilt or dash grab as a punish.
 
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Qualudes

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I am sorry to inform you that with DI away this is escapable by like 80-90% of the cast. Because of the high risk involved in this (SDing) it’s not worth doing against any opponent that has the possibility of escaping it “hoping” for bad DI.

It would be good if someone could get a list of chars where this is 100% guaranteed. I can tell you 2: Peach/Daisy and Samus. From my early testings on day 1 it seemed to be dependent on a mix of gravity + max fall speed (so basically how “floaty” a char is, where more floaty = less possibility to DI away and end up too low).



I am speaking about going for an SD kill here. If you’re just going for onstage damage, it’s low risk, mid reward as the worse that can happen is that they tech away/in and get some kind of tilt or dash grab as a punish.
You're undoubtedly right. My original post was a little off the mark as far as the reliability is concerned. Most people will tend to DI in when at the edge, but that doesn't make the combo an optimal punish offstage for sure. I personally have had games that I won because of an offstage spike, and some that I have lost because I have missed it and lost all momentum going into the last stock.
 

taterboat

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Hey, thanks for putting this all together. I've been playing around with this combo here and there, and this has been pretty useful for that. I'm curious as to whether or not anyone has looked into a similar combo with back throw + side B? I've found that it can spike kill at crazy low percentages (as low as 16% on Mario, for reference), but I'm not sure if it's easier or harder to DI out of than down throw + side B. It has a significantly smaller window as well, which would obviously hurt its practicality in competitive play.
 

Qualudes

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Apparently the reverse hit of Nair can combo into Wolf Flash on certain characters... Did it by accident against a Ganon at the edge of battlefield. I will probably put a likely list of percentages together over the next week or so. If anyone is interested in seeing the data let me know.
 

Yung Nikey

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Honestly, im putting this on a notepad and having this ready everytime I play online lmfao. You're the goat for this
 

Qualudes

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Honestly, im putting this on a notepad and having this ready everytime I play online lmfao. You're the goat for this
Just be aware that most of the cast can DI out of this. I have had good luck online when using it as a suicide spike with a stock lead, but that is primarily because people tend to DI in when grabbed near the edge. If the opponent has experience against a wolf that knows how to land this they may avoid it. This is a guideline and should not be taken as gospel against real people. Thanks for checking out the post.
 

Yung Nikey

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Just be aware that most of the cast can DI out of this. I have had good luck online when using it as a suicide spike with a stock lead, but that is primarily because people tend to DI in when grabbed near the edge. If the opponent has experience against a wolf that knows how to land this they may avoid it. This is a guideline and should not be taken as gospel against real people. Thanks for checking out the post.
Yeah im fully aware, I've just taken this as a basis, and honestly its pretty goddamn accurate. It's surprising how many people don't DI
 

Qualudes

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I just started playing this game regularly again, I will lab that tonight and get back to you.
 

Mooer

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Just picked up Wolf, loving his kit and the flash especially. For the D-throw/flash combo to work they need to not DI away or else it wiffs.. so I'm thinking, is there a D-throw follow up that punishes DI away? If we can start the match by training the opponent to avoid DI away and start trying to DI in then we can catch them with this punish. I've only successfully pulled this off a few times against players that panicked in disadvantage, it's been impossible to hit against some of my playgroup with good DI knowledge

I've also been trying to lab B-throw into flash. I think it has the same problem with DI away, has anyone labbed this yet?
In my limited initial testing I've noticed that B-throw has a MUCH small percentage window to actually hit the opponent and it works on a only a fraction of the cast compared to D-throw. Also, the percent at which it combos is entirely dependent on whether you throw them on stage or off a platform/stage. I've found it to be more consistent and easier to hit when throwing them off platform/stage and usually only hits if you grab them at low percents around ~%30
 

Qualudes

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Just picked up Wolf, loving his kit and the flash especially. For the D-throw/flash combo to work they need to not DI away or else it wiffs.. so I'm thinking, is there a D-throw follow up that punishes DI away? If we can start the match by training the opponent to avoid DI away and start trying to DI in then we can catch them with this punish. I've only successfully pulled this off a few times against players that panicked in disadvantage, it's been impossible to hit against some of my playgroup with good DI knowledge

I've also been trying to lab B-throw into flash. I think it has the same problem with DI away, has anyone labbed this yet?
In my limited initial testing I've noticed that B-throw has a MUCH small percentage window to actually hit the opponent and it works on a only a fraction of the cast compared to D-throw. Also, the percent at which it combos is entirely dependent on whether you throw them on stage or off a platform/stage. I've found it to be more consistent and easier to hit when throwing them off platform/stage and usually only hits if you grab them at low percents around ~%30
There is no true follow-up that offers a guaranteed punish against DI away, but obviously it still puts a large number of the cast at the disadvantageous position of being further off stage. This allows the possibility of an edgeguard (obviously), but that's about it. Idk what your experience level with Wolf is, but I can tell you that with experience comes the ability to determine if this combo is worth going for depending on how well your opponent is playing. If the opportunity presents itself, I will tend to throw out a "feeler" move near the edge, and if it connects I follow their DI. If the opponent DI's in after a nair, F-throw, etc. then I will consider going for this if I have a stock lead. I will tend not to pummel if I am going for this because I want to give them as little time as possible to think about what I am looking to do.

DI Away is unfortunately the optimal defense against Wolf near the edge if he is obviously fishing for a grab while facing ledge. The mixup for us comes in the form of Bair, B-throw, U-smash, D-smash, the list goes on. I am still blown away by how effective a spaced F-smash on shield into F-tilt is on the majority of players I encounter online.

If the people that you are playing against have knowledge against wolf, you are frankly screwed with hitting this combo. They will always DI away unless they panic.

As for labbing B-throw to Flash... If you want to do it, you have my support. but I can tell you that it is a mountain made of very specific character data with a **** load of variables piled on top. B-throw scales very sharply with rage, where D-throw's rage-scaling is very muted by comparison. I have landed it a few times in an actual match, but I consider that primarily a function of luck + character knowledge.
 

VARNAMi

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The spike box works for Cloud and Mega Man when they aren't in training mode for some reason. This is probably the same for other characters who's spike box isn't true.
 
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