Double Shine / Pillaring

[Baha]

Hello im New here but i've been reading the forums for a long while

ok so i consider myself a good Falco, i can do all the flashy stuff and whatnot but I have problems with a few things

Im about to face a 'shield grabber' sheik on a tournament and I want to learn the double shine + drill + double shine to do that pillar technique and destroy his shield

I can do the dair fine with the lcancel and stuff but i can't seem to do 2 shines in a row like 'shiz' did in one of his videos (idk who else does it).

Exactly how do you do this? do you cancel with a stationary wavedash? how the heck is it done =o? do you jump cancel the shine and if you do how the heck is it possible to do 2 shines in a row soooo fast!. If i anyone here tells me how to do them exactly i will be able to have it ready for next week !

Need help here thanks in advance .

 

[Tundravalco]

ok well what i do with fox is slide my thumb from the B to the Y and slide it back to the B. its kinda like the sliding method for short hopping but just keep the slide going until you hit the B. with that method ive done it 10 times with fox and about 15 with falco but it takes alot of practice. needless to say it has to be done very fast so it takes some quick fingers but ive got faith in you . well thats the way i do it but whatever is comfortable for you and maybe somebody will suggest a better way and ill leech off that too ^^. if i explained it terribly just tell me and ill give it another go.

and welcome to the forums <(-^.^-)>

 

[Klowne]

If you jump while in a shine, you can shine again if you hit down+b during the few frames before falco leaves the ground, where it looks like he's kneeling down, ready to jump. It's a very small timeframe and takes alot of practice to nail properly.

So what'd you'd do would be this:

Dair > L-cancel > shine > jump > shine (no wavedashing involved)

 

[Volrec]

This is not an easy technique. I'm telling you. I can do it pretty well as seen on my video on youtube(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_YhFyA03-4) and so can Shiz.

Just kidding. I mess up, and my wavedashes suck.

Oops, i didnt even explain the technique.

Like everyone said. You shine, jump then shine. You have to reshine in a 4 frame limit.

 

[Tundravalco]

i thought it was 6 for falco and 4 for fox but i could be and theres a very good chance i am wrong.

 

[Adi]

You don't need to do a double shine in order to make a successful pillar. Worry about getting the shine/dair as fast as you can first before thinking about two shines =p.

 

[Grand Mango]

Double shines are not necessary for successful pillars, but alternatively you could just grab him out of his shield.

 

[Baha]

You don't need to do a double shine in order to make a successful pillar. Worry about getting the shine/dair as fast as you can first before thinking about two shines =p.

oh i know i can do that i just wanted to make sure i got it right

plus i think that double shine is even more annoying and effective and WAAAAAAAAY cooler.

Thank you everyone for your replies you've all been really helpful

 

[Oskurito]

Yes, Shine then jump and inmediatly shine again before falco leaves the ground fox can also do it.

I suggest some methods here:
-With the control stick so you press D + B then Flick it UP then DOWN and press B and so on. --You can also try to slide your thum From X to B very quickly and I mean VERY quickly, it doesn't matter if you hit A if you do it enough fast the game wont notice it, with this method I can do like 4~5 shines.
-And this other method wich I call "the switch", I've only use this for fox though JC shines with fox are a lot harder, so I dair first L-cancel and then I quickly put my Index and middle fingers on Y and B buttons and HOLD down the control stick and press B+Y+B+Y+B+Y+B+Y...
It looks cool and flashy.

The uses? Ah come on... pillar is useless just to put some pressure on idiots who insist to shield grab you a JC grab out of the shine is safest and if you're opponent is not a noob he's just going to roll dodge away

 

[Deleted member]

pretty easy stuff.

you can easily double shine with analog, but not any other jc shines after 2 shines.eh

 

[Leoneri]

The link in my sig has an example of the double shine pillar

 

[tarheeljks]

doubleshining is great if you can pull it off consistently but most people can't. it's hard to master in a short period of time, so i suggest shffl-ing into grabs instead of shining (it will work b/c they are expecting the shine) or jc-ing your shine into a grab. i use these tactics a lot, in addition to the occasional double shines, against my friend who uses c.falcon.

 

[Baha]

doubleshining is great if you can pull it off consistently but most people can't. it's hard to master in a short period of time, so i suggest shffl-ing into grabs instead of shining (it will work b/c they are expecting the shine) or jc-ing your shine into a grab. i use these tactics a lot, in addition to the occasional double shines, against my friend who uses c.falcon.

I 've been trying to JC grab my shines but for some reason i can only pull it of 1 time out of like 5. Falco keeps jumping instead of grabbing

Am I JCgrabbing too slow? too fast? i just do x+z after i shine but i dont seem to get it O.o.
Is there an exact timing and can anyone give me a tip?

Well I got a couple things in mind vs this 'i dont attack just defend' *******.
1. Waveshine + dair + shine etc etc (pillar)
2. I could also just waveshine once close to him and then again going behind him (will i get grabbed?)
3. Waveshine then JC grab.

are there any other things i can do vs an annoying sheik ? **** that sheik and her shield stun being so short.

 

[Oskurito]

I 've been trying to JC grab my shines but for some reason i can only pull it of 1 time out of like 5. Falco keeps jumping instead of grabbing

Am I JCgrabbing too slow? too fast? i just do x+z after i shine but i dont seem to get it O.o.
Is there an exact timing and can anyone give me a tip?

Well I got a couple things in mind vs this 'i dont attack just defend' *******.
1. Waveshine + dair + shine etc etc (pillar)
2. I could also just waveshine once close to him and then again going behind him (will i get grabbed?)
3. Waveshine then JC grab.

are there any other things i can do vs an annoying sheik ? **** that sheik and her shield stun being so short.

JC grab out of the shine it's all about timing, maybe you're doing it too fast, keep in mind that you can do it with the control stick too just press UP and then press the Z button(not exactly at the same time just be fast but not too much) this can make things easier for you

You wont get grabbed if you waveshine enough fast, If you are planning to pillar on his back then you can do the same without a waveshine you just have to DI to his back when the dair his hitting his shield that will be safer.

JC grab out of the shine is unstoppable and the safest thing you can do to a shield.

 

[SCOTU]

Yeah, about the double shine: w/ falco, you have to shine, press y (jump) then press down-b EXACTLY 6 frames later (the same timing as the jc grab out of shield). The best way to double/tripple/n shine is to shine first after your aerial, then snap your thumb back up and slide it w/ the right rhythm down to b (repeat as necessary or just pillar/grab). I can't do this w/ falco because i'm too well programmed at doing it w/ fox (fox's is 4 frames instead of 6). About the shine-grab, you're probably doing it too fast, there are 6 frames between the x&z, this is a long time (.1 sec), if you were doing it to slowly, you'd get a shine>jump>nair (or other aerial). What it sounds like is that you have pretty fast fingers (who of us flashy players don't?), and you are just pressing z too early, make a mental pause then press z.

Includes double/tripple/quadrupal shines in use (fox)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5034768952955448555&q=5th+column+ascension

 

[Oskurito]

Yeah, about the double shine: w/ falco, you have to shine, press y (jump) then press down-b EXACTLY 6 frames later (the same timing as the jc grab out of shield). The best way to double/tripple/n shine is to shine first after your aerial, then snap your thumb back up and slide it w/ the right rhythm down to b (repeat as necessary or just pillar/grab). I can't do this w/ falco because i'm too well programmed at doing it w/ fox (fox's is 4 frames instead of 6). About the shine-grab, you're probably doing it too fast, there are 6 frames between the x&z, this is a long time (.1 sec), if you were doing it to slowly, you'd get a shine>jump>nair (or other aerial). What it sounds like is that you have pretty fast fingers (who of us flashy players don't?), and you are just pressing z too early, make a mental pause then press z.

Includes double/tripple/quadrupal shines in use (fox)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5034768952955448555&q=5th+column+ascension

your info is right but no one and I said NO ONE does this frame perfectly(not even you) ,you can cancel the shine after frame 6 but is not necessary to do it EXACTLY on frame 6, just be sure you shine again before falco leaves the ground

 

[SCOTU]

god no, i don't do this frame prefect (to full speed) i do it at 1/2-1/4 speed. I'm just saying that once you press y you have to shine on EXACTLY the 6'th frame (4'th w/ fox) later. earlier than this jumps w/ no shine, later gets a shine in the air, preventing you from continuing.

 

[Oskurito]

Ah.. I understand now what you meant to say, It's correct then

 

[MrBitter]

Just to echo what others have said...

Double Shining is easiest when your jumping is being done with the control stick.

Down+B
Up
Down+B

To practice, try this:

- Go to training mode.
- Start by jumping out of your shine as quickly as possible. Don't jump with X or Y, though, use the control stick.
- You'll know you're getting the timing down when your shine animation is almost invisible. You'll see a flash of blue, and it'll be almost immediately cancelled by your jump.
- Once you're doing this consistently, try cancelling your jump with another shine. Again, be sure that you're jumping with the control stick. If you absolutely hate jumping with the control stick, get over it... Do it anyway for the sake of practice...
- It shouldn't take long for you to get fairly consistent with double shining using the above technique. Once you've gotten it down and you've established a good idea of how quickly you need to execute each part of the double shine, THEN you can start trying to get it with X or Y. The real trick is learning the speed at which you need to move. Once you get a feel for that, you'll be able to transition from jumping with the control stick to jumping with X or Y much more easily.

This is the way I learned to double shine... I hope it helps you.

 

[Oskurito]

Actually I'm in the process

 

[SCOTU]

Uh... using the control stick is a rather difficult way of doing it, although, it might be easy enough w/ falco, but this technique is not particularly a good one w/ fox.

 

[MrBitter]

Uh... using the control stick is a rather difficult way of doing it, although, it might be easy enough w/ falco, but this technique is not particularly a good one w/ fox.

I've found that it works quite well with Falco, especially when you don't wavedash out of your shine...

I've never played much Fox, so I wouldn't really be able to comment on his shine combos.

Short hopping with the control stick is admittedly very difficult, though...

The point I was trying to make earlier, though, was not that the control stick is the best way to double shine, but that it's the easiest way, in my opinion, to learn the timing neccessary to double shine effectively.

It's much easier to pop the control stick back and forth than it is to move your thumb from B to X/Y and then back to B... Much more so when you have no real comprehension of how quickly it needs to be done.

 

[Myztek]

I just slide my thumb back and forth from Y to B for double shining.

 

[Baha]

Thanks to all of you for the tremendous help and replies its been so helpful

After a lot of days and practice i am able to pull off the double shine :D. Now I just have to include it in my pillaring it just looks so cool.

double shine + dair + double shine + dair Oo try to grab me and you'll suffer!

 

[Oskurito]

Thanks to all of you for the tremendous help and replies its been so helpful

After a lot of days and practice i am able to pull off the double shine :D. Now I just have to include it in my pillaring it just looks so cool.

double shine + dair + double shine + dair Oo try to grab me and you'll suffer!

Uh... Roll dodge anyone? An idiot who insist to hold his shield will definitely get his shield breaked but a smarter opponent will just rolldodge away. But If you master this you will almost never get grabbed on a match, at least when your attacking

 

[Baha]

Uh... Roll dodge anyone? An idiot who insist to hold his shield will definitely get his shield breaked but a smarter opponent will just rolldodge away. But If you master this you will almost never get grabbed on a match, at least when your attacking

That's my whole point. I just hate getting shield grabbed
I hate it with passion! (i do it a lot though =P).

Oh and its easy to chase someone that rolld away

 

[Driz]

Perfect, Finally a greta thread on doubleshining, I was having so much trouble trying to slide from B to Y to B but using just the control stick does seem easier though I have not nearly perfected my speed, me and my slow fingers!

 

[invertigo]

scotu that video is awesome. how do you do your running tricks? is it just alot of wavedashing and dash dancing? or is there like foxtrotting or whatever too? i dont know much about foxes, they dont usually have the luxury of running around when we laser them.

 

[Driz]

To Soctu-- I saw at one point you seemed to edge-tech after allreasy grabbing the edge is that possible or did you do something to cause it? It was when Marth was charging his B and you had just grabbed he hit you and you kinda just edge teched and fell instead of being owned with knowckback, plz explain how this is done if any different from hitting L/R 20 frames before being hit or what ever frame count is!

 

[SCOTU]

Uh... Roll dodge anyone? An idiot who insist to hold his shield will definitely get his shield breaked but a smarter opponent will just rolldodge away. But If you master this you will almost never get grabbed on a match, at least when your attacking

A falco/ fox multishine (or pillar) when done adequately prevents any action out of a shield. When done perfectly, they can't even input controls to roll/ let go of shield because of shield stun, done quickly, but not perfect will just hit them when they try to roll/anything.

scotu that video is awesome. how do you do your running tricks? is it just alot of wavedashing and dash dancing? or is there like foxtrotting or whatever too? i dont know much about foxes, they dont usually have the luxury of running around when we laser them.

A lot of time, i just mix DDing w/ pulsewalking & wavedancing, a technique i call pulsedancing. You just mix the three together in different ways (ie. DD>pulsewalk>wavedance>pulsewalk>DD). You'd be surprised how much ground movement fox can do against falco.

To Soctu-- I saw at one point you seemed to edge-tech after allreasy grabbing the edge is that possible or did you do something to cause it? It was when Marth was charging his B and you had just grabbed he hit you and you kinda just edge teched and fell instead of being owned with knowckback, plz explain how this is done if any different from hitting L/R 20 frames before being hit or what ever frame count is!

You're hit, ASDI/ SDI to edge, tech on that frame.


And on the overall topic of multishining, while i always go too fast w/ my fingers for falco at the moment, I like to think of the jc shine as a singe control in my mind: slide from y>b. Don't slide back and forth. just from y>b. It keeps it strait in your mind. It's kinda like a wavedash once you have it down. If you're doing several multishines, slide from y>b lift thumb, repeat. This makes it a separate entity for your mind. It's then easier to do something out of it rather than just shine again, like wavedash, shffl something, shdl (shl only for falco), etc...