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Does Brawl look TOO good?

V

VanillaMummy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
253
While looking through the screenshots that have been revealed, especially the Final Smash ones, I've been getting concerned that the game looks to good graphically. I'm not complaining that it looks better then it should, I just fear the game will slow down or skip frames during these high graphical moments.

Ever since the Wii was released all we've heard about was the graphical limitations of the Wii, while this game seems to look almost just as good as any game for the 360 or PS3.

Anybody that has played Mario Party 8 can probably relate to what I'm saying. When you use the Duelo candy, your character's body bursts into flames (kinda like the curry in Brawl). When you first use the candy, the game slows down and there is an obvious lag and frames being skipped, and this game doesn't have as good of graphics as Brawl seems to have.

So, is anyone else concerned about the graphical limitations or do you think Sora LTD has found a way to work around this?
 
L

lukintosh

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Waiting for someone to play with
I don't think the developing team of MP8 was as large as SSBB. I don't think Sakurai would purposely make his game lag. He'd probably make the flame in the curry smaller or something.
Game devs always make their graphics to suit the framerate.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. :ohwell:
 
W

WarMachine

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
196
I'm sure it'll be fine. Metroid Prime 3 had amazing graphics as well and it never lagged for even an instant.
 
G

Ghost42

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
116
Location
Gold Coast
Brawl is a fighting game based on a small environment (not much stuff but well made) and games on other systems will have similar graphics in an area possibly miles across and has to render everything in your view.

Also most of the possessing power/ lag comes from things like realistic shadows.

Brawl also use polygons efficiently with textures that have been well made:

Diddy's upper arm seems to be about three to five polygons long and I'll estimate about eight polygons around but it is well textured making it look like there are a lot more.
 
K

Kor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
144
Graphics wont matter for lag anyway, since everything except items are preloaded into the level before the level even starts.

The only way you're going to get lag is if you have like 12 bob-ombs go off at the same time, or something.
 
D

Deserter

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
43
Location
On teh PC
black hole glitch any one remeber that it was the very esscence of lag. the only way were getting lag is if there is a way yo recreate that in brawl.
 
T

Twin Dreams

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
820
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Actually, they have a point. FoD is banned from team tournaments because picking ice climbers can slow down the frame rate.


However, I agree that I'm not worried about it. The only thing that could cause a major lag is the background. But, because the background doesn't interact directly with the foreground, this could just be a movie playing in the background, instead of a rendered scene. Or is my understanding of this flawed? That would mean the only rendered objects are the characters and the stages (and items if they will be used in tournaments.) Which isn't all that much. Consider DBZ: BT2. They have a complete rendered enviroment, with rendered characters, and it only slows down when both players use large area special attacks.
 
SSJ4Kazuki

SSJ4Kazuki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
2,605
Location
UK (Edinburgh, Scotland)
Different developers have different ability. They also use different Source code.

Graphically, SSBM was more intense than Mario Party 8.
Mario party 8 lagged WAY more.

Therefore, with the Wii being more powerful than the cube, you can
expect the game to run at the exact same (both positive and negative)
standard that Melee did, just with slightly better graphics.
 
W

WR3K

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
569
Location
stuck in germany
lag isnt totally based on the crispness of the game


but how the engine handles the graphics


MP# didnt lag, and its graphics were better then MP*

SSBB wont lag
 
V

VanillaMummy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
253
Twin Dreams said:
Actually, they have a point. FoD is banned from team tournaments because picking ice climbers can slow down the frame rate.


However, I agree that I'm not worried about it. The only thing that could cause a major lag is the background. But, because the background doesn't interact directly with the foreground, this could just be a movie playing in the background, instead of a rendered scene. Or is my understanding of this flawed? That would mean the only rendered objects are the characters and the stages (and items if they will be used in tournaments.) Which isn't all that much. Consider DBZ: BT2. They have a complete rendered enviroment, with rendered characters, and it only slows down when both players use large area special attacks.
Click to expand...
The backgrounds could possibly be a movie, but I doubt that's the case. Look at the Animal Crossing stage, you would have to have hours upon hours of background movies if you didn't have it rendered in real time.

I'm fearing a slow down when two FS are used at the same time (if this is possible) or if something happens like:

Bowser uses flame breath while
MetaKnight is doing a rapid combo with Curry while
Ice Climbers are using freeze powers while
Diddy Kong activates his Final Smash while
They are all on the Castle Seige stage.

If you look at that list, that is quite a bit of particle effects and general rendering the system has to do at the same time.

I'm hoping the game runs quite smooth, in fact I hope it runs smoother then Melee did (which did lag from time to time). I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
2007

2007

Smash Ace
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752
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84604
and the probability of those events are about 1/646219, so we have very little to worry about.
 
K

Kor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
144
I love how everybody keeps talking about how good the graphics are, and dont' bother to include that we're playing SSBB on a brand new (hardware enhanced) system.

As if we're expecting a Gamecube to do all this...
 
X

Xanderous

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
1,598
The Wii is basically a Gamecube. It's not even as powerful as the original Xbox.
 
K

Kor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
144
Xanderous said:
The Wii is basically a Gamecube. It's not even as powerful as the original Xbox.
Click to expand...
I call BS. You have a source to back that up.


edit:

http://wii.ign.com/articles/733/733464p7.html


Q: Is Wii more powerful than GameCube?

A: Yes. It is roughly twice as powerful as GameCube. Developers working on Wii games are largely in agreement that the system is more capable from a horsepower standpoint than the original Xbox. However, it does not have the computing power of either Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3.
Click to expand...
http://wii.ign.com/launchguide/hardware1.html
The console is roughly twice as powerful as a GameCube, putting it in horsepower territory beyond Xbox, but well shy of Xbox 360.
Click to expand...
 
Takeshi245

Takeshi245

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
2,051
Location
Ansonia, CT
Kor said:
I love how everybody keeps talking about how good the graphics are, and dont' bother to include that we're playing SSBB on a brand new (hardware enhanced) system.

As if we're expecting a Gamecube to do all this...
Click to expand...
Same here. Oh, and the Wii is more powerful than the Xbox, but not by much. I don't think they'll focus too much on graphics to degrade the gameplay. I'm not worried about this.
 
BudDudandSlash

BudDudandSlash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
110
Location
California
We're really reaching for things to complain about now. The graphics I've seen of Brawl don't look like they'll push the machine as much as Mario Galaxy will.
 
P

Pyroloserkid

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
3,588
Location
Ontario
I don't think they'd skimp out on gameplay to have better graphics. The Wii is pretty powerful, even more than the Xbox.

So don't worry.
 
Spellman

Spellman

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
623
Location
Brickway
I think it looks awesome, and I like things that look awesome.

I don't think this will cause lag, yeah, Mario Party 8 had it's problems, but it looked like a middle tier Gamecube game in my opinion. (this is kinda a crummy standard for Mario Party games)

It all depends on what kind of understanding the programmers have of the system and it's limitations and advantages. Retro Studios, for example, are pro's in that department. They did it with Metroid Prime 3, and graphically, they even did it with Metroid Prime Hunters. Although I can't say it was nearly as good as the Gamecube and Wii games, the architecture in it was as phenomenal as it's ever been.

I don't think that Nintendo would let inexperienced programmers take on this huge project.
 
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