Doctor Who Discussion - Series 14 episode 6 out now

[fogbadge]

I'd argue that things are scarier when you don't explain anything. Explaining something causes it to lose the mystique, and the explanation is often disappointing compared to what you build up in your mind. Take Hannibal Lecter, Darth Vader, Michael Myers from Halloween, or the Xenomorph from Alien, for example - when those series went into the backstory/creation of those characters, it was seen as disappointing.

As for the election, aside from Gwilliam clearly eager to launch nuclear weapons (with it outright being said that he'd do it at the first opportunity, possibly even at the moment that he got control), there was whatever it was implied that he was doing to Marti. There are presumably limits to what they can show, but it seems like the point is that politicians (or anyone, really) can be charismatic but hide darker sides to themselves.

For me, some of the most unsettling moments in Doctor Who (at least from what I've seen) have happened when the Doctor's response to something is "I don't know", and in this case, these new forces that are in play take that to extremes, removing the Doctor from the universe without warning. It's kind of like the episode Midnight, where they're faced with a force that defies natural order.

I’d say it’s sort of the reverse of midnight with midnight we don’t know what the monster is but we know what it’s doing. Here we learn who the monster is but we don’t know what it’s doing. So it’s not so much as playing on fear of the unknown as going with what exactly is going on here.

as for the second bit that’s what I was saying we only know what he going to do. As implying stuff well the exact same writer in the exact same show was able to imply things a lot heavier in the past and make it more clear

ultimately it comes down to how they do it and here I feel they didn’t do it very well

 

[MartianSnake]

I understand you don't like the episode but does the title of the thread itself have to be so opinionated? Feel like that's something that oughta remain neutral.

 

[fogbadge]

I understand you don't like the episode but does the title of the thread itself have to be so opinionated? Feel like that's something that oughta remain neutral.

yeah ok I’ll change it

 

[The Black Omen]

It was nice seeing Kate again

Overall the episode was very enjoyable but the ending was a letdown. It feels like RTD started writing, had some really brilliant ideas, and just kinda kept writing until he realized he'd overran the 50 minute mark and so just kinda stopped without writing a satisfying conclusion. Still better than Church on Ruby Road, Space Babies, and Devil's Chord combined.

 

[Megadoomer]

I just made it to "World Enough And Time" in my watch-through of modern Who, so I'm nearing the end of Peter Capaldi's run. I really wish they didn't spoil so much in the season and episode trailers.

For the threat of that episode,

Spoiler

the Cybermen are portrayed in a much creepier way than anything that I've seen from them. (to be clear, what I've seen from them has been "Revenge of the Cybermen" from Tom Baker's run and everything from 10-12 so far) The fact that partially-converted Cybermen are repeatedly saying things like "pain" or "kill me", and the doctors who handle the conversion are aware of this but make no effort to actually stop it, gave me the creeps when I was watching this episode, and Bill's fate was a punch to the gut.

It's just a shame that they look like this:

Between the clearly visible human hands, the ski mask face, and what looks like a whole air conditioning system on their chest, the fear factor is lost somewhat, though it's still a bit unsettling to see human faces working beneath the ski-mask-like face. Also, I'm not sure what Mondasian is or why that makes them different from normal Cybermen; I'm guessing it's something from the classic series.

Also, the episode ends with this plot being referred to as "the genesis of the Cybermen". That seems like it's setting the next episode up pretty highly, given how well regarded Genesis Of The Daleks is considered. (the parallels in terms of how it was worded felt like they had to be intentional)

 

[MartianSnake]

I just made it to "World Enough And Time" in my watch-through of modern Who, so I'm nearing the end of Peter Capaldi's run. I really wish they didn't spoil so much in the season and episode trailers.

For the threat of that episode,

Spoiler

the Cybermen are portrayed in a much creepier way than anything that I've seen from them. (to be clear, what I've seen from them has been "Revenge of the Cybermen" from Tom Baker's run and everything from 10-12 so far) The fact that partially-converted Cybermen are repeatedly saying things like "pain" or "kill me", and the doctors who handle the conversion are aware of this but make no effort to actually stop it, gave me the creeps when I was watching this episode, and Bill's fate was a punch to the gut.

It's just a shame that they look like this:

Between the clearly visible human hands, the ski mask face, and what looks like a whole air conditioning system on their chest, the fear factor is lost somewhat, though it's still a bit unsettling to see human faces working beneath the ski-mask-like face. Also, I'm not sure what Mondasian is or why that makes them different from normal Cybermen; I'm guessing it's something from the classic series.

yeah thats how the cybermen looked in their first ever story. A ton of fans believe them to be the scariest form of them cuz its more human than machine, like a bunch of beepers forcing someone to stay alive. I generally agree

 

[The Black Omen]

Three guesses what my favorite Cyberman design is.

In all seriousness, I think the Mondasian Cybermen are a bit overrated. I mean, The Tenth Planet is one of the all-time greatest Cyberman stories, but they look even goofier there then they did in World Enough and Time. It's just so much. It's still better than the modern designs by a long shot. Trust me, the worst is yet to come.

Gotta love how we're all talking about World Enough and Time and not the episode that just aired today. I haven't seen it yet. Been really busy.

 

[fogbadge]

well i did not like episode 5 but that's i hate things that are purposefully bleak.

 

[Megadoomer]

I finished Capaldi's run (Missy's my favourite incarnation of the Master so far, including Roger Delgado - Michelle Gomez does a great job at selling the character as dangerous and unpredictable but also someone who wants nothing more than to be friends (or possibly more) with the Doctor like how they used to be; I felt like Bill was underused, though), and I watched Dot And Bubble.

I figured out thirty seconds in that it would be critiquing social media, but I didn't think it would focus so much on the racism and self-centeredness that comes from people being stuck in bubbles on social media. By the end of it, I was hoping that Lindy would be eaten by one of the slug monsters, or that the Finetimers' boat would sink right after the Doctor leaves.

About halfway through, I thought that Lindy might be racist (she made some comment about how the Doctor "isn't as stupid as he looks", and it's not like he's being like the 4th or 6th Doctor where he's dressed in a ridiculous costume and acting dumb to trick people - he was wearing normal clothing and sincerely trying to help everyone), but I didn't realize it was on a societal level. I could really feel Ncuti's frustration when he went from laughing to screaming at the end.

I thought the episode was well-acted by everyone involved, and it reminded me of how I felt when reading Harry Potter and getting to the parts with Dolores Umbridge.

 

[Cheese&Chips]

Personally, I’ve not been particularly impressed with this series so far. RTD has never been subtle with his messaging, but he’s not even trying anymore. Every episode bashes you over the head with its social message, and it’s actually starting to take me out of it. And his comments about characters like Davros have been ludicrous.

You can tell that this isn’t 2005 RTD, but RTD following his discovery of Twitter.

 

[fogbadge]

Personally, I’ve not been particularly impressed with this series so far. RTD has never been subtle with his messaging, but he’s not even trying anymore. Every episode bashes you over the head with its social message, and it’s actually starting to take me out of it. And his comments about characters like Davros have been ludicrous.

You can tell that this isn’t 2005 RTD, but RTD following his discovery of Twitter.

personally i think RTD's first run had plenty of issues as well.

 

[Cheese&Chips]

personally i think RTD's first run had plenty of issues as well.

Didn't say it didn't. Doesn't mean this one doesn't have more.

 

[fogbadge]

Didn't say it didn't. Doesn't mean this one doesn't have more.

quite an achievement considering we're only 8 episodes in

 

[Cheese&Chips]

quite an achievement considering we're only 8 episodes in

So? If you're incapable of telling the quality of something after five consistent weeks of episodes, then that's on you. The five episodes of Doctor Who Unleashed have been embarrassing too. The higher ups seem to be worried too given that they had to resort to saying that it was the nice weather why a show airing at 6:50 PM UK time had unimpressive viewing figures.

 

[fogbadge]

So? If you're incapable of telling the quality of something after five consistent weeks of episodes, then that's on you. The five episodes of Doctor Who Unleashed have been embarrassing too. The higher ups seem to be worried too given that they had to resort to saying that it was the nice weather why a show airing at 6:50 PM UK time had unimpressive viewing figures.

what are you getting so hostile for? I was trying to offer some optimism as there’s space for improvement

 

[The Black Omen]

Finally got around to watching the episode. In a better season, it would've been more palatable. As it stands, we've got the mediocre Christmas special, two appallingly terrible episodes, the excellent Boom, and two pretty decent experimental episodes with the Doctor barely involved. If anything, this is proof that RTD needs to back off, because he really seems to have lost his touch as a showrunner. The 2020s really seem to be a slump for the show so far.

It was a bold move to have the lead character be an unlikeable selfish halfwit, and while I think it ultimately paid off, those first few minutes or so were really hard to get through. It's obvious what the allegory was, and I'm glad RTD is tackling big issues, but by nature it means none of the characters are even remotely enjoyable except for Ricky September of all people, who I think would honestly make a great Doctor. His death, however, was far too violent for a family program, in my opinion. Not even Eric Saward would go that far. On the subject of the Doctor, I think it was very interesting to see a situation at the end where the people that he saved show no gratitude. I can't think of a prior episode where this has happened, at least not off the top of my head. Honestly pretty cool. Not a bad episode imo. About as good as 73 Yards.

Oh and one more thing: the soundtrack was really good

 

[MartianSnake]

Personally I like the new season quite a lot. I think Space Babies had some major issues and Devil's Chord some minor, but the rest were pretty great in my eyes. I just think the season needs a really good more lighthearted adventure-y episode (which I hope Rogue is to some degree)

 

[fogbadge]

Rogue is gonna be interesting, it's the only episode this series with new writers. i believe this is the writers from Loki. so it'll be good to see what new people will bring

 

[fogbadge]

that episode was pretty good over all

 

[Megadoomer]

A lot of the references to shows/movies set in this time period flew over my head (at least, I assume that "Bridgerton" and "Strictly" are shows or movies; their names were italicized in the subtitles), though I thought this was a good episode.

When Rogue's ship was showing different faces of the Doctor's, there were two that I didn't recognize - one in between the First and Fourth Doctors that looked kind of like Christopher Walken with a larger forehead, and another woman aside from the 13th Doctor. Not sure if either of those are spoilers for episodes that I haven't reached yet, but I recognized all of the other Doctors in there, including the War Doctor, though I had to double check to make sure that Paul McGann and Peter Capaldi were in there.

I've also started the 13th Doctor's run - I'm four episodes in, and so far, Rosa's been my favourite episode of 13's run, though I've generally enjoyed all of them. (my only criticism is the weird handling of Arachnids In The UK's ending)

 

[fogbadge]

A lot of the references to shows/movies set in this time period flew over my head (at least, I assume that "Bridgerton" and "Strictly" are shows or movies; their names were italicized in the subtitles), though I thought this was a good episode.

When Rogue's ship was showing different faces of the Doctor's, there were two that I didn't recognize - one in between the First and Fourth Doctors that looked kind of like Christopher Walken with a larger forehead, and another woman aside from the 13th Doctor. Not sure if either of those are spoilers for episodes that I haven't reached yet, but I recognized all of the other Doctors in there, including the War Doctor, though I had to double check to make sure that Paul McGann and Peter Capaldi were in there.

I've also started the 13th Doctor's run - I'm four episodes in, and so far, Rosa's been my favourite episode of 13's run, though I've generally enjoyed all of them. (my only criticism is the weird handling of Arachnids In The UK's ending)

Strictly is Strictly Come Dancing a popular dancing show here in Britain

Bridgerton is some period drama, seems to be one of the hot shows right now

as for the faces one was the actor Richard E Grant who played the doctor in an animated webcast called Scream of the Shalka. released in 2004 the modern series made it non canon making this cameo a surprise. The second face I can’t tell you

you’re right Rosa is a good episode

 

[Qwerty UIOP]

ignore this.

 

[Megadoomer]

Also, I picked up some more Big Finish stories. I really liked the 7th Doctor story "Master", and found out that there were similar ones focusing on Davros (with the 6th Doctor) and Omega (with the 5th Doctor). I also got a story that was part of a 60th anniversary release that involved the 10th Doctor, Missy, and the Paternoster Gang, because I can't say no to a combination of my favourite Master, my favourite supporting characters (so far), and one of my favourite Doctors.

Some of them are pretty expensive, though - I wanted to look into the War Master (since one story, Anti-Genesis, sounded interesting and we didn't get much of him in the show) or a story featuring Christopher Eccleston (since we didn't get nearly enough of him in the show), but those seem to cost about $50 each. (by comparison, the three stories that I got cost $25 total - $5 each for the villain stories and $15 for the 60th anniversary one)

 

[darkvortex]

thoughts so far
Space Babies - pretty weak, not a strong opener but fun enough. B
Devil's Cord - Really good. Jinx steals the show. Song is bad but I'm willing to give them it this the once.
Boom - I don't know if it's my favourite Moffat but I enjoyed it. Nice little anti war and capitalism story.
73 Yards - Real mixed feelings on this. I think Gibson is a great actress and proves it here. I also don't mind that we don't know much about the threat since I like a good unexplained threat. I do think it could have been longer though, with more time given to Rodger and his party. I think I like it more in concept than execution.
Dot & Bubble - Big Paradise Tower vibes from this. Went into it expecting to hate it and I really liked it. The ending twist is bleak but really well built up to.
Rouge - Yeah this was great. could we have future showrunners in Herron and Redmon? I guess we'll need to wait for their next story. Groff and Gatwa flow so well. Don't care at all that the romance was sudden, worked for Madam Depompadoor. I thought the villains where kinda dumb but they worked for the story.

finale throughs -

it's got to be Suketh, right? Sand, Death, Power over the Tardis, creepy Pyramids in the teaser.

A lot of the references to shows/movies set in this time period flew over my head (at least, I assume that "Bridgerton" and "Strictly" are shows or movies; their names were italicized in the subtitles), though I thought this was a good episode.

When Rogue's ship was showing different faces of the Doctor's, there were two that I didn't recognize - one in between the First and Fourth Doctors that looked kind of like Christopher Walken with a larger forehead, and another woman aside from the 13th Doctor. Not sure if either of those are spoilers for episodes that I haven't reached yet, but I recognized all of the other Doctors in there, including the War Doctor, though I had to double check to make sure that Paul McGann and Peter Capaldi were in there.

I've also started the 13th Doctor's run - I'm four episodes in, and so far, Rosa's been my favourite episode of 13's run, though I've generally enjoyed all of them. (my only criticism is the weird handling of Arachnids In The UK's ending)

Bridgerton is a huge Netflix period show and the influence for this episode. Strictly is a more UK specific reference, basically being the UK equivalent to Dancing with the Stars.

Fogbade is right. The first face is the Shalka Doctor, portrayed by Richard E. Grant (who also played the Great Tntelligence during Matt Smith's run) from the 2003 webcast Scream of the Shalka. A previously considered non canon story that was intended as it's own relaunch. (It's a fun story but the early 2000s web animation is rough). Grant also played the Doctor in the sketch A Curse of Fatal Death but it's much more likely to be the first option lol.

the second face. I assume you mean the black woman? That character's existence is unfortunately a massive spoiler for the 13th Doctors era but I'll put it in spoiler tags

That's the Fugitive Doctor, a previously unknown version of the Doctor implied to have existed pre Hartnell who had been hiding in Earth from the Timelords as a human named Ruth. She was part of a covert opps unit known as the Division. Not much is still known about her./ispoiler]

 

[fogbadge]

Also, I picked up some more Big Finish stories. I really liked the 7th Doctor story "Master", and found out that there were similar ones focusing on Davros (with the 6th Doctor) and Omega (with the 5th Doctor). I also got a story that was part of a 60th anniversary release that involved the 10th Doctor, Missy, and the Paternoster Gang, because I can't say no to a combination of my favourite Master, my favourite supporting characters (so far), and one of my favourite Doctors.

Some of them are pretty expensive, though - I wanted to look into the War Master (since one story, Anti-Genesis, sounded interesting and we didn't get much of him in the show) or a story featuring Christopher Eccleston (since we didn't get nearly enough of him in the show), but those seem to cost about $50 each. (by comparison, the three stories that I got cost $25 total - $5 each for the villain stories and $15 for the 60th anniversary one)

are the ones you're looking at box sets? they're usually the pricier ones

i've got a fantastic set of the 9th doctor audio stories, one with the cybermen and one with lady macbeth and scottish myth, great stuff. i've only got one with the war master, a set of river song stories where she fights 4 different incarnations of the master

alternatively there's a lot of early big finish stories on spotify you can listen to for free, iirc it includes the davros one you mentioned