Smash Wii U Do Your Controllers ACTUALLY Matter?

[Chief Hotsuin]

I've seen a number of tournaments allow only a Gamecube controller due to input delay that wireless controllers would bring. At the same time, l've seen someone test the input difference between a Gamepad and the 20XX Controller, and the Gamepad was a tenth of a frame FASTER. And in my experience fighting against my two brothers all the time on it, the Gamepad itself really doesn't have notable delay. So are the competitive players only unfamiliar with the less used controllers, or is there a legitimate, technical reason for this ban?


And yes, l can agree the Wiimote does matter as a selection, as it's layout really limits your options, but l'm talking about inputs.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Well, atleast I don't think I feel any major input lag at all when I play with any controller, but that's just me. I remember the Xbox 360 controller had slightly more input lag when used Wireless if compared to it Wired. I also remember the input lag supposedly got worse if you were playing wireless with low batteries, but even then, I didn't feel much of a difference. I'm not saying it's not there, but I don't feel it much if it is there.

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

AAAHH!!! Batteries. I see now. It makes perfect sense now. Oh man, it seems so obvious now.

 

[SherrdreamZ]

No notable lag difference for the Gamecube or Wii-Pro Controller.. I don't own the Gamecube Adaptor because its inconsequential to me, but i've played using one at a friends place.

 

[Ghostly ~]

As long I'm comfortable of using the controller (GCN and Gamepad) that I use to play Smash 4, I would say it matters to what I can used. GCN controller is still recommended for tournaments though.

 

[Fluorescent]

In lots of big tournaments, things like your cell phone can hurt the signal from ex: the wii remote to the console (causing input lag).

I'm guessing TO's ban wireless controls simply so that everyone is playing on the same field level and that no one complains that they're lagging in a local match.

While I'm all about preference on what controller works the best for you, the fact that the GC controller is wired makes it so that there should be no input lag whatsoever.

 

[Quarium]

I played in several crowded events up to like a hundred or more people with my 3ds and I only felt lag IN ONE MATCH ever.

So yeah, it happens but I think people exaggerate about the actual effect of it.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Right now, I'm kind of used with playing Smash 4 on my 3DS even when playing the Wii U version. Sometimes, I have problems with the controllers themselves rather than input lag. Stuff like the game simply "forgetting" that I pressed Up and B and just registering B, or somehow registering a Side B, my recovery going the wrong way, stuff like that which I swear is not my fault. I've had to recalibrade the analog stick on my 3DS something like 4 times since I bought Smash.

 

[Splebel]

In my opinion everyone should use any kind of controller they want as long as there is no kind of special button that has a macro that gives you a huge advantage. If someone wants to use a wireless controller I say let them use it but with a warning that they cannot complain about lagging, dead batteries, or if for some reason the game accidently disconnects them. Someone intentionally interfering with a wireless controller signal should of course be dealt with but that should be rare/hard to prove. I say it's more of top players not liking variability.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The issue of wireless interference is a real issue and should not be written off as insignificant. Even if wireless gear works "most of the time" and lag spikes are "super rare", it's just not worth dealing with it. I don't really run tournaments anymore, but if I did, I'd probably carry some rule indicating there is zero mercy for signal hiccups. If you lose a match because your wireless tool couldn't perform, that's your own problem. I'm not gonna spend time resetting matches or making judgment calls when it could have been prevented by just using a wired connection: no power or signal problems.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I understand they can be frustating, yes. If I ever get the Wii U version of Smash 4 (not likely) I'd probably try switching to a GC controller. I have no trouble playing PM and Melee with it, don't see why I'd have trouble using it in this new one.
Other than having to buy that adapter which kind of sucks.

 

[PokÉmblem]

I use the gamepad and I don't notice any delay besides the obvious lag online that happens.

 

[Dr._Doctor]

I don't have any problems with the Gamepad or the Pro Controller, and I don't know what the Gamecube controller is like because I don't have an adapter for it.

 

[Simperheve]

I was under the impression TOs banned wireless controllers because of syncing shenanigans? Like people would leave their controllers synced and then accidentally / deliberately interfere with other matches.

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

I was under the impression TOs banned wireless controllers because of syncing shenanigans? Like people would leave their controllers synced and then accidentally / deliberately interfere with other matches.

Yeah, l looked into it some, and the trouble of syncing (or players forgetting to desync) along with said interference is just an annoying bother TOs'd rather not go through. l can't say from experience how bad it actually can be, but l can imagine.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Yeah, l looked into it some, and the trouble of syncing (or players forgetting to desync) along with said interference is just an annoying bother TOs'd rather not go through. l can't say from experience how bad it actually can be, but l can imagine.

It can get pretty bad but it usually doesn't, that's why most TOs that don't just outright ban them keep a list of who is using a wireless controller, and if there's any problems they do a "battery check" to make sure everyone's controller is off/batteries out/desynched. Often there's a rather strict DQ if someone causes a problem, but usually the person just gets a warning the first time as long as it doesn't cause a big delay in the tournament. Course, some small tournaments just request anyone using a wireless controller that isn't playing to leave their controller with the TO(with a identifying marker of some sort), guarantees there's no problems.

And of course, the "Just use a wired controller, then there's no problems" doesn't exactly work. Try switching from a gamecube controller to, say, wiimote+Nunchuck and see how long it takes you to even perform half as good as you currently do. Switching controllers isn't an easy task for people who have years of experience with the controller.

There isn't as much interference as one might think when it comes to wireless controllers, aside from the people leaving theirs on and synched when they aren't playing. Short of someone setting a wireless device(phone, etc..) on the game console, or holding it close to your controller, there isn't enough interference usually for it to impact gameplay. If there is, that's more likely a problem with your controller or the console. And it's easy enough to just have a rule of no wireless devices near the console, and ask people to put their phones in the pocket opposite their opponent (or just turn them off)

Plus it -is- a general rule that players are responsible for the performance of their own controller, wired or otherwise. They know how to make sure there isn't anything close enough to cause interference, or to make sure that it's functioning properly before the tournament/set.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

And of course, the "Just use a wired controller, then there's no problems" doesn't exactly work. Try switching from a gamecube controller to, say, wiimote+Nunchuck and see how long it takes you to even perform half as good as you currently do. Switching controllers isn't an easy task for people who have years of experience with the controller.

TOs are not obligated to cater to something just because players invested a great deal into it. I'm not advocating banning wireless controllers necessarily, but if there were enough problems to warrant a ban at a later stage, "years of experience" is not a viable defense. We certainly don't want to invalidate those years of experience, but if you wanna be safe, use a wired controller.

 

[Kalierdarke]

TOs are not obligated to cater to something just because players invested a great deal into it. I'm not advocating banning wireless controllers necessarily, but if there were enough problems to warrant a ban at a later stage, "years of experience" is not a viable defense. We certainly don't want to invalidate those years of experience, but if you wanna be safe, use a wired controller.

if a TO were to ban gamecube controllers near you, would you A: learn a new controller, or B: find a different venue?

Most people would choose B.

It's not the TO's problem to make sure you have no problems with your controller during a match, and a threat of a DQ if you don't disable your controller will make it so most people remember to remove batteries/desynch. Repeat offenders even at locals can just recieve a venue ban rather than banning the control option itself.

And yes, I do understand you don't advocate banning wireless, it's just "easier" to do so as you don't have to worry about the problems in the first place. But the primary focus should be on the players enjoying themselves as long as it doesn't hold up the tournament. being forced to use/learn a controller you aren't used to goes against that.

 

[Sonicninja115]

A video came out about a month ago proving that with any controller, there are only 6 frames of input lag...

The TO thing is just because of syncing shenanigans.

 

[Conn1496]

I used to use the GC controller in older games (-and before that back when I was a wee kiddy, Wiimote and its delicious lack of input options. Ouch.), but since Smash4 I've been set on the Wiimote's Classic Controller Pro attachment. -and obviously because I only personally own the 3DS version, I've been using that, too (Not on Wii U though.). Now the 3DS is problematic for it's own reasons IMO, mostly down to the fact the system is just not as hardy as a controller, but there's certainly no input lag to me. -and I'd say the same for the Classic Controller Pro (That there's no input lag - I personally find no other issue while using the Classic Controller Pro outside of "Damnit, batteries!".).

Though, I will admit, I wish consoles would go back to the old wired controller deal, since wireless controllers have been a pain in my ass for years now as a gamer (Battery costs and/or recharger peripherals... Why not just release official wired options? Jeez...). -and I guess that's part of the reason why Classic Controller Pro feels so natural in a bizarre way - it's wired. Sure it's wired to a Wiimote and that invalidates the whole thing, but from a comfort standpoint... -still applies to me. lol

If a TO banned Classic Controller Pro (-and if I was even really into the tournament scene to start with.), then I would be a bit miffed, but I don't think it would be too hard to transfer my play-style back over to GC controls (Though I remember re-binding buttons to an awkward way regardless. I usually hate using shoulder-buttons for primary functions in fighting games, for example.), and I think that'd be a similar case for anyone who was good at fighting games (Since inputs are something fighting game players just have to get used to to be good anyway. -IMO, atleast.).

I don't think TOs should ban non-wired controllers, since most competitive people don't use them anyway from what I see, but they should definitely give a disclaimer that people who do use non-wired controllers risk a DQ or even a controller choice ban if they run out of charge in a match or complain about their controller (for reasons unknown - I mean, you picked it) too frequently. Sure they come with problems, but all that comes to mind there is "No Johns". lol

Though I do understand why people would be irritated when these issues do crop up (I mean, if someone gets DQd against someone they're blatantly better than just because of a controller issue... Yeah.) - I guess it's just down to the player to make sure they don't, and the TO to punish when these do happen. I feel that as a competitive smasher, you have some responsibility anyway, in that sense to make sure you don't peeve the TOs. It's just common sense. -and on the flip-side, I feel the TOs have to try and be as welcoming as possible so to not alienate potential competitive players. Again, I feel it's just common sense.

Whether TOs want to take the risk of controller mishaps happening and causing a bump in the otherwise smooth (lol, jk) process of running a tournament is up to them though, and I can completely respect their decision either way (Unless they have **** reasoning for it. Like "GC controller is just the best. lol".).

(Semi-unrelated, can you imagine if a new top player came along and was using a Wiimote? How salty would people get? lmao.)