Do you need to?

[dnilb]

I have been getting back into SSBM after a couple months of having no good multiplayer game to play, me and my friends would play for hours and hours at a time just playing smash. I'm trying to get my roomates back into it, because we use to be really competitive and would do tons of 1v1's.
This is my first time visiting and posting on these boards, but after reading around I have a couple questions about it.
In halo2 there were little glitches that people mastered so they could prety much dominate over someone who didn't (I only played that game maybe 2 times before I gave it up forever)
After reading around on these boards, it makes me NOT want to get back into SSBM and hope that brawl fixes these little things:
stuff like Wavedashing, or l canceling or shffle

I don't know MUCH about these and I could be wrong, they could be very easy and good tactics everyone uses. I just don't want to get into a game where I have to master a glitch so I can play in tournaments and be able to do good.
I love SSB and always have, but I need some motivation to keep playing..are these things really that big of a deal? Put, for example, Marth vs Ganon, the Marth player doesn't use WD/ l cancel / or shffl, the ganon does. and lets just say they are equal skilled. Does that mean the ganon would dominate marth? or would marth be able to do just as good?


-dnilb

 

[Klowne]

Sorry, but learning how to play this game at top profficiency is part of being skilled. You won't get by without advanced techs.

And yes, the ganondorf would dominate the marth, because the ganondorf knows how to play, and the marth is stuck on a stupid mindset that certain moves are 'glitches' or 'cheap'.

 

[dnilb]

Sorry, but learning how to play this game at top profficiency is part of being skilled. You won't get by without advanced techs.

And yes, the ganondorf would dominate the marth, because the ganondorf knows how to play, and the marth is stuck on a stupid mindset that certain moves are 'glitches' or 'cheap'.

I'm not saying "I refuse to play this game because those moves are cheating"

I am just not sure how important they are. If using these moves IS important, then which one should be learned first and is the most helpfull?

 

[Klowne]

Sorry for seeming hostile before. I'd say SHFFLing is one of the more important techs. Most people practice it by going to training and doing it at 1/4 speed and gradually speeding it up as they get better at it. Once you can thoughtlessly incorporate SHFFLing into your game, it makes the most difference out of any advanced techs IMO.

 

[dnilb]

Sorry for seeming hostile before. I'd say SHFFLing is one of the more important techs. Most people practice it by going to training and doing it at 1/4 speed and gradually speeding it up as they get better at it. Once you can thoughtlessly incorporate SHFFLing into your game, it makes the most difference out of any advanced techs IMO.

It's cool, thanks for replying.

I'll have to go into training and try all of these. I tried last night and wasnt able to get WD down..I guess I just need alot more practice.

 

[Mehijunior]

There are definitely some techs that are much more helpful than others. Personally I think using the SH effectively is the most important, then wavedashing and l-canceling.
It is true that these are sort of an abuse of the game's physics, but discovering things like this increasing the replay value of the game by a huge margin, and I can guarantee that in SSBB people will immediately begin to find ways to do the same thing as done in SSBM, otherwise the game would just become boring after a while.

 

[pdk]

wavedashing's importance really depends on who you're using, but shflling is top priority for all but 3 characters (samus, sheik, ICs)

 

[dnilb]

wavedashing's importance really depends on who you're using, but shflling is top priority for all but 3 characters (samus, sheik, ICs)

Well I have always used ganon as my 'main' and I still plan on using him.
Which things should I learn first with ganon that will help the most?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Well I have always used ganon as my 'main' and I still plan on using him.
Which things should I learn first with ganon that will help the most?

You should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDs-lPmIUec

Sorry if the text is too small to read at times, there's probably a higher-res version available for download somewhere on this site. But that covers general advanced techniques, and ones specific to Ganon. To see them in action, search for Thomas Tipman, Eddie, and Joe Bushman matches on Youtube, and go check out the Ganon board.

 

[ZASS]

-edited for content-

 

[1048576]

Ganon's aerial game is very important. Learn to shffl. Don't think of it as a glitch. Short hopping was obviously intended. Same with fastfalling. L-Cancelling was used in the original Smash Brothers, so the developers had ample time to remove it, but didn't. Therefore, a strong argument could be made that the developers intended L-Cancelling to be in Melee

On a side note, the developers of melee acknowledge the ability to slide across the stage by performing an airdodge angled diagonally toward the ground. They refer to it as the "land fall special."

 

[pdk]

Well I have always used ganon as my 'main' and I still plan on using him.
Which things should I learn first with ganon that will help the most?

regular wavedashing isn't very important with him but wavelanding (jumping then airdodging into the ground as you land) is, as well as chainthrowing, shffling and the down+b -> jump -> repeat trick

 

[quak]

HAHA! HILARIOUS!

you guys didn't even skip a beat.......

****, if some dude flashed me while i was talking i don't think i'd be able to continue so easily, kudos men.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

HAHA! HILARIOUS!

you guys didn't even skip a beat.......

****, if some dude flashed me while i was talking i don't think i'd be able to continue so easily, kudos men.

Well, that's me in the picture, so it doesn't really phase me.

Also, @ topic creator, the following 3 vids are about various general advanced techs that work for all characters. It's very descriptive, and should give you a good idea of things to start working on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiZLs2doK8E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFmGIOcWdsM

 

[th0rn]

I think some beginners don't want advanced techniques because they are too lazy to learn them. This game takes time to get good at and like all things, take practice. And yes, these advanced techniques are very useful in helping your game.

 

[pdk]

HAHA! HILARIOUS!

you guys didn't even skip a beat.......

****, if some dude flashed me while i was talking i don't think i'd be able to continue so easily, kudos men.

frequenting 4chan makes you HARDKORE, so much that you can take a shotgun blast to the chest and keep on talking calmly about dickgirl porn or something

 

[psicicle]

for ganondorf, L-canceling is THE most important technique for him. Full jumping your arials can work well sometimes, but when you miss, L-cancelling can make a whole stock of difference.

 

[A-Laon]

"Discontent is the first necessity of progress."

^ A fortune cookie that kept me inspired to learn advanced techs.

May this ancient wisdom be passed onto you, my son.

 

[dnilb]

"Discontent is the first necessity of progress."

^ A fortune cookie that kept me inspired to learn advanced techs.

May this ancient wisdom be passed onto you, my son.

hah I'll remember that,

Thanks for all the tips / tricks everyone. I'll definetly practice them. SSB is the only game my friends play, and they don't know about any of these tricks. But i'll practice them and get them to the point where I don't even think about it, it just happens ( i'll alteast TRY to do that)

But since it's been so long, I think I need to play the game normally and get used to it again. Once i've played it a bunch i'll start practicing these.

I'm wondering though, do you think alot of these little tricks will be in SSBB?

 

[sweetooth]

Well, that's me in the picture, so it doesn't really phase me.

haha. lol.

but back on topic, those techniques are not hard to do. it just takes practice on knowing when to apply them

 

[Delphiki]

A very, very good player (top professional) who doesn't wavedash often is Aniki. Try looking for some of his vids.

 

[Sushiman]

Just remember that knowing how to wavedash does not mean complete ownership of your friends.

 

[dnilb]

Just remember that knowing how to wavedash does not mean complete ownership of your friends.

Well yeah I know that, I just ment that learning all these little details would help alot when going against them.

 

[Ryuker Reo]

So you're asking if those "glitches" are needed to be mastered to win and play good?
Well, it really depends. It depends on the character.

Wavedashing helps, but it's not too important. Not knowing how to wavedash is not a big deal. I know players that don't do it and still play really well. But obviously they'd win more matches if they'd do it. So, yes, it does help a lot. But no, it's not too important.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

Wavedashing is good if you put it to good use; if you don't, it will make you much more beatable.

I suggest working on L-cancel and overall smash intelligence.

 

[halfDemon]

I actually suggest getting into the habit sheildgrabbing before anything else. And for Ganondorf, SHFFLing is pretty much a necessity.

 

[Mehijunior]

Someone who knows how to wavedash can be owned easily by someone who can exploit mistakes, regardless of how good the opponent can wavedash

 

[FzGhouL]

Want to play competitive? Yes.

Want to have fun? No.

 

[Chimerical_Carl]

L-cancelling has been around since smash bros 64 and was included on purpose. It was even explained how to do in a Nintendo Power magazine.

 

[Klowne]

Want to play competitive? Yes.

Want to have fun? No.

Playing to win is more fun than playing to have fun, IMO.

 

[pdk]

Playing to win is more fun than playing to have fun, IMO.

if you've ever seen /v/ you'd be amazed at just how many people seem to think that there's one universal definition of what constitutes fun, and apparently it doesn't include competition