Do ungifted players ever catch up to or beat gifted players? If so how long does it take?

[jimm]

I've been playing Smash 4 since the demo was available. Some weeks I play it around 3 to 6 hours a day for some of the days, or less frequently the other days. Some weeks there are streaks of consistent 8 hours a day. There have been a few weeks where I didn't really play it at all out of either distraction by schoolwork or loss of motivation. I've started going for a solid 8 lately, watching professional matches, reading a lot about the game, watching replays, same stuff I've been doing all along but more intensively now.

Then there's this person I know who plays once a week on average and doesn't really put any serious effort in. He easily beats me most of the time when I do agree to play him. The most i ever got was consistently beating him for maybe two days until he naturally exceeded me again.

It seems like I'm struggling against an impossible battle. I'm the 25th worst score on Anther's. I still make very stupid mistakes sometimes and beginner-esque SD's. Bizarrely two separate people on Anther's recently said I have excellent spacing but that doesn't seem to help me.

Clearly some people are gifted and others aren't. The question is if extreme lack of talent can be made up for with long hours of disciplined practice. I'm on a spring break so I'm willing to spend around 12 hours a day until next week where I'll have to cut back again. I'll put in as much effort as my available free time allows but if there's no hope I'll just give up and go back to the things I am gifted at, which there are a few; they're what's led me to believe it might just not be feasible for someone without a talent to catch up to someone with it, because I've seen it so many times from the other side of the fence. I don't have to try much to be a good programmer, I just am, same for some other things.

 

[Duplighost]

First off, cut back on the time you play a day. I rarely play for more than 2 hours maximum. Sometimes, too much at one time is too much to handle (at least for me). I have realized that, yes, lots of practice will definitely get you better, but constantly playing for hours could potentially exhaust you from getting any better.

I would dedicate no more than an hour watching pro matches, and 2 hours max playing yourself (total of 3 hours). Do not overwhelm yourself. I can foresee many will disagree with my view on how long to play, but so be it.

I see you're a Megaman main. Despite how much you may love him, try practicing with another character and understanding a broad range of playstyles. Maybe Megaman just isn't the charcter for you. Just when I thought I was excelling with a character, another, better one, came along.

Just remember to play the game, and enjoy it. That's the golden rule.

 

[jimm]

First off, cut back on the time you play a day. I rarely play for more than 2 hours maximum. Sometimes, too much at one time is too much to handle (at least for me). I have realized that, yes, lots of practice will definitely get you better, but constantly playing for hours could potentially exhaust you from getting any better.

I would dedicate no more than an hour watching pro matches, and 2 hours max playing yourself (total of 3 hours). Do not overwhelm yourself. I can foresee many will disagree with my view on how long to play, but so be it.

I see you're a Megaman main. Despite how much you may love him, try practicing with another character and understanding a broad range of playstyles. Maybe Megaman just isn't the charcter for you. Just when I thought I was excelling with a character, another, better one, came along.

Just remember to play the game, and enjoy it. That's the golden rule.

It's either main Mega Man or don't play at all for me. I play Peach in PM/Melee and could user her here, Pikachu a little since I played him for a long time in Melee years ago, I don't mind playing Lucina. But ultimately winning as Mega Man's all I care about.

Does it sound like I'm enjoying myself? Fun is a nicety I can't afford.

 

[Wintropy]

I'd consider my brother to be a "gifted" player, and while he is still leagues and bounds beyond me, I'm slowly but surely catching up to him.

There's no hard and fast answer here. Truth is, you're never done learning: there's always something new to discover, some way you can improve. Having a goal in mind just helps you know what you're striving towards. And when you beat that goal, set a new one and carry on.

 

[Pachinkosam]

I think everyone was once a ungifted player once in there life just keep playing and don't give up.

 

[jimm]

I think everyone was once a ungifted player once in there life just keep playing and don't give up.

That's not how "gifted" works. It's something innate. Some people have much more natural talent than others, and those people don't have to try to be good at whatever they're talented at. It's a widely observed phenomenon.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

but remember talent =/= be all end all.
a lot of 'talented' players also put the time in.
talent isnt just some magical thing. it isnt decided from birth that you will be a ~super amazing smash bros player~
talent is a mix of natural ability with hard work. some lack the natural ability so they make up for it by working hard. natural ability isnt something that automatically makes you good...its the jumping off point. (plus, there are divisions to types of gamers. some play by instincts, some art book learners, etc). source: am artist. 'talent' is something i have to discuss with people on the daily.

work hard, but dont overwork. you'll end up catching some bad habits if you over practice...and then you'll have to spend time unlearning and relearning etc.

and yeah, even the most 'talented' people start off somewhere not-so-good.
i have a 'natural affinity' to art, and let me tell you there is an entire pile of sketchbooks sitting in my closet + harddrives filled photoshop files that are just me messing up or doodling or just making bad art so i can get the knowledge to make less bad art.

+ i know a lot of people who have a lot more natural talent than me, but im still more technically sound at art than them because i put in more work. that isnt always the case, but hard work makes up for what natural talent doesnt...and thats not just me making a feel-good statement.

 

[TheDeathChicken]

I don't feel like I have any natural talent at Smash. The only reason I'm the best in my group of friends is. I am the only one with the game, and I play it in large amounts. Even still I'm only slightly better than all my friends. If you have NO talent like myself, be prepared to play Smash religiously. I usually just play in training mode and practice a single thing over and over again for about an hour.

 

[zero sum]

i'm awful at the only game i play with any regularity (i.e., melee) and, yes, it's disheartening at times, but when i think about the fact that i've been playing for less than half a year and i'm still taking games off of really talented people who have exponentially more experience than me it's not so bad

while it's true that players who are naturally “gifted” at smash have to work less hard than people like me, i don't necessarily think that their skill ceiling is inherently higher than mine

as for your situation, i have to ask a question: to what extent do you feel like you're learning something from your practice? a lot of my melee practice comes down to just practicing tech skill and getting the muscle memory down, but i should think that concern would be substantially less significant in smash 4 (this isn't meant as an elitist remark btw as there's nothing wrong with this haha). so it's a lot more important that you feel like you're learning things about spacing, when to throw out moves, when to shield, how to punish, etc. whenever you're playing as opposed to maybe grinding out tech skill with your busted space animals in melee or something

while i disagree with the notion that you should necessarily cut down on your hours (six is a little intense though imo unless you're really having fun), maybe it would be a good idea to spend a little less time playing and more time examining why you're losing games. i know this can be difficult—i personally go into panic mode whenever i'm playing—but try to figure out crucial exchanges that you lost in a certain match and focus on why you lost them. if you don't already do some sort of analysis of your matches, i think this approach to practice can be much more helpful than just practice through sheer volume, though that can be helpful sometimes too. even going into analysis asking yourself “why am i getting hit here?” helps tremendously

if you have access to a recording set-up, you could try recording a match or two and asking people to critique your play. i'm sure the people on the subforums would be willing to help you out. good luck!

 

[jimm]

i'm awful at the only game i play with any regularity (i.e., melee) and, yes, it's disheartening at times, but when i think about the fact that i've been playing for less than half a year and i'm still taking games off of really talented people who have exponentially more experience than me it's not so bad

while it's true that players who are naturally “gifted” at smash have to work less hard than people like me, i don't necessarily think that their skill ceiling is inherently higher than mine

as for your situation, i have to ask a question: to what extent do you feel like you're learning something from your practice? a lot of my melee practice comes down to just practicing tech skill and getting the muscle memory down, but i should think that concern would be substantially less significant in smash 4 (this isn't meant as an elitist remark btw as there's nothing wrong with this haha). so it's a lot more important that you feel like you're learning things about spacing, when to throw out moves, when to shield, how to punish, etc. whenever you're playing as opposed to maybe grinding out tech skill with your busted space animals in melee or something

while i disagree with the notion that you should necessarily cut down on your hours (six is a little intense though imo unless you're really having fun), maybe it would be a good idea to spend a little less time playing and more time examining why you're losing games. i know this can be difficult—i personally go into panic mode whenever i'm playing—but try to figure out crucial exchanges that you lost in a certain match and focus on why you lost them. if you don't already do some sort of analysis of your matches, i think this approach to practice can be much more helpful than just practice through sheer volume, though that can be helpful sometimes too. even going into analysis asking yourself “why am i getting hit here?” helps tremendously

if you have access to a recording set-up, you could try recording a match or two and asking people to critique your play. i'm sure the people on the subforums would be willing to help you out. good luck!

to what extent do you feel like you're learning something

Decently, apparently I've gotten pretty good spacing, and I try to note things not to repeat or situations to avoid. Finally won a ranked match against someone with a ranking greater than the starting point (had many wins in their history) on Anther's yesterday. FG rate's over 50%.

And maybe the Smash 4 practice has transferred a bit to Project M. I was playing it for a few hours against some other person who doesn't do the advanced techniques in it and won a majority after getting used to the feel of it again. PM feels fairly more natural/smooth to play in for some reason.

 

[Teran]

It's not just about talent, nor just about raw hours spent, but also about the quality of practice.

You have to analyse what your strengths and weaknesses are and have a focused plan for your practice. That's really why good players tend to get better, they know what they're working towards.