chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Welp, time to use this as an excuse to talk about Klonoa being added to Smash to promote this.
Though let's be real, Klonoa would be a good pick either way.
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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II
- Thread starter Cyn
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Though let's be real, Klonoa would be a good pick either way.
Garteam
Smash Master
I think it's far more likely work will begin on whatever the next Smash game is going to be once FP2 ends.
The Switch will be nearly 5 years old by the time FP11 is released at the end of next year. Assuming the Switch has the average 7-year lifespan of a modern console, it is highly likely that most games in the early lineup of its successor will be either planned or well into development. Nintendo knows that Smash is a system seller that makes a ton of money, so they're most likely going to want a Smash game for this new console out ASAP. This would, obviously, entail starting development at the earliest possible moment.
LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
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There will in fact not be a third fighter's pass...
Because Sakurai will defy convention via skipping right over it and giving a fourth pass instead!
Because Sakurai will defy convention via skipping right over it and giving a fourth pass instead!
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3BitSaurus
Smash Master
I don't want to be excited, because there's always a chance trademarks amount to nothing.
But I'm excited.
ForsakenM
Smash Lord
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Hey, so I'm a wordy person, and this post gets very long. I'm gonna spoiler it into categories, and if you don't read it I understand, but it goes in-depth on my issues with both companies.
You wanna know why I'm cool with Crash and Spyro?
Spyro is bias to be sure, as I love that purple dragon lad, but I have very little attachment to Crash unlike most of the Smash fandom.
No, the reason I'm okay with them is that they represent an era of gaming that was a bit more wholesome and honest, and Activision not only didn't originally own them, but hasn't fully corrupted them as of this point either. Had they done something scummy with either of them at this point that was truly worth noting, I would have the same tune, only then it would be 'Scummy companies who are anti-consumer and only care about the almighty dollar AND corrupted older games that used to be good don't deserve a spot in Video Game Hall of Fame: The Video Game.'
I also dislike lootboxes but from what I've seen at least Fortnite SEEMS a bit better about just playing to get content or just buying what you want (I don't play the game so I'm not 100% sure but my nephew basically lives in Fortnite and he gets season passes and I saw how many side quests he had and how many rewards that were tied to it, so without doing research that is as far as I can really say). No, lootboxes is not any main reason for me.
Blizzard is a ****ty company that tells it's fans to shut up about stuff all the time, has devs who tell fans 'You don't want that. You think you do but you don't.' straight to a crowd of fans, 'Come on, you all have phones, right?', did massively horrible false advertising for Warforged III because they just got lazy during development, senseless censorship and banning in Overwatch by devs who are playing God (never banned, just to clarify), the weird changes they made or added last minute to character lore to manipulate certain audiences to make purchases, their banning of players and shilling to China during the Hong Kong incident, and generally that they haven't released a half-decent game at launch for a while ever since they became a part of Activision who is known for their greed.
They used to be a company that made really good games that just never appealed to me. Now they have turned into the above stated.
Spyro is bias to be sure, as I love that purple dragon lad, but I have very little attachment to Crash unlike most of the Smash fandom.
No, the reason I'm okay with them is that they represent an era of gaming that was a bit more wholesome and honest, and Activision not only didn't originally own them, but hasn't fully corrupted them as of this point either. Had they done something scummy with either of them at this point that was truly worth noting, I would have the same tune, only then it would be 'Scummy companies who are anti-consumer and only care about the almighty dollar AND corrupted older games that used to be good don't deserve a spot in Video Game Hall of Fame: The Video Game.'
I also dislike lootboxes but from what I've seen at least Fortnite SEEMS a bit better about just playing to get content or just buying what you want (I don't play the game so I'm not 100% sure but my nephew basically lives in Fortnite and he gets season passes and I saw how many side quests he had and how many rewards that were tied to it, so without doing research that is as far as I can really say). No, lootboxes is not any main reason for me.
Blizzard is a ****ty company that tells it's fans to shut up about stuff all the time, has devs who tell fans 'You don't want that. You think you do but you don't.' straight to a crowd of fans, 'Come on, you all have phones, right?', did massively horrible false advertising for Warforged III because they just got lazy during development, senseless censorship and banning in Overwatch by devs who are playing God (never banned, just to clarify), the weird changes they made or added last minute to character lore to manipulate certain audiences to make purchases, their banning of players and shilling to China during the Hong Kong incident, and generally that they haven't released a half-decent game at launch for a while ever since they became a part of Activision who is known for their greed.
They used to be a company that made really good games that just never appealed to me. Now they have turned into the above stated.
My bias against Fortnite comes from a WAY more personal anger towards Epic Games, but never let it be understated how much they only care for money. Not only does Fortnite go through regular crunch time to get massive amount of content out to rake in the cash that devs barely see much of, but the game is designed around making everyone think they are a winner. If you are winning/doing well in the majority of your games, you have less matches but see lots of success; if you aren't winning a lot /doing poorly, you get into so many matches so quickly that the feel of failure barely stays and you will inevitably have a more successful match or two without ACTUALLY improving at the game overall. Considering that this game heavily appeals to children, this manipulates players into thinking they are really good at the game regardless of whether they are, and people tend to enjoy games they think they are good at and spend more time and money on them...and doing this to children feels very exploitative of their naivety.
Originally I didn't like the game for these reasons and because it originally launched with only the one mode and a paid other mode that no one really cared about, which to me felt like gutted content as someone who was used to playing many FTP FPS/TPS that had many different modes to select from. However they have rectified this issue now with offering essentially Team Death Match and other modes that are seemingly permanent additions as well as rotating game modes, and honestly some of the content they add that isn't just a skin or a dance I find to be acceptable.
However, they can never escape the fact that the reason for Fortnite's success stands on the the graves of betrayal to both another company they were working with and their own players's trust. From what I researched a couple of years ago, Bluehole (who owns PUBG) went to Epic Games to pay to use Unreal Engine and assets to make PUBG. This means they would have to tell them what they were attempting to make and come to a deal, which they did. However, Epic Games loved the idea of a battle royale so much that they basically screwed over Bluehole by being a company with way more money and assets and turning Fortnite into what it is today. See, originally Fortnite was a failed idea of what I believe was just a wacky-looking tower defense/fort defense game that would have played similar to Borderlands, but it was deemed a failure of an idea and was killed. When Epic Games got wind from Bluehole about PUBG, they took that dead project and ripped the idea of a battle royale and made Fortnite what it is now, with the original art style that is kid-friendly, some small changes like making it a TPS and adding a building mechanic from the original Fortnite concept, and making it FTP because they could afford it while Bluehole HAD to make PUBG have an entry fee to afford the investment they made being a smaller company at the time.
This essentially almost gutted PUBG entirely and shot Fortnite up to where it is today: ripping off someone else's idea and making it in such a way that it kills the competition of the company you just contracted with and appeals to children to manipulate them into begging their parents for money. Fortunately, from what I've heard and seen, PUBG has seen serious success in the face of all of this, yet no where NEAR what Fortnite has or what could have been had they not been so scummy.
Now, for my bias and anger...
I was a HUGE fan of Paragon. If you don't know that game, I'm not surprised, but it was essentially a third-person MOBA (similar to Smite) that was on PC and PS4 and made every other MOBA look like trash in terms of graphical fidelity as well as combining the elements of MOBAs that worked while also adding just a dash of their own spin to make things fun and unique. I plugged hours into this game, playing it before and after work nearly every day. I subscribed to so many channels, talked in their official forums, attended dev streams...I jumped into this game hardcore!
Unfortunately, Epic Games once again showed their inability to make something original and make good decisions with it, because they then introduced a brand-new map with new mechanics and removed the original that people loved so dearly. They lost a sizable chunk of the player base that they never got back, but there was still enough to go on to be successful. Then they completely overhauled their item system to feature a new but more confusing and very limited card system that fundamentally changed the game a second time, and they hemorrhaged players again. I remember when they were originally released a brand new champion, with lore, some skins and other cool cosmetics, at a regular interval of every three weeks...but shortly after this system change, they had been promising a champion named Boris who was a Russian bear in a mech armed to the teeth...and he never came.
A couple months after not getting the next promised champion, the dev team made a post on the official forums. It was essentially a post asking the community what they could do to improve the game. Believe it or not, I had never seen so many pages upon pages of posts that were entirely constructive and not offensive or insulting, offering advice on what they think should be done to keep the game going, and most of them added up to adding an official ranked mode, bringing back the old map and letting players choose which one to play on, and bringing back the old item system. The community knew what they wanted and were actively willing to work with the dev team in a healthy manner to keep the game they wanted to much alive.
Around a week later, we got a post saying that the dev team was getting pulled from Paragon, that it would be officially shut down in April of that year, and no acknowledgement to the ideas offered to improve the game. I remember being dazed about the whole thing, and the community seemed just as confused, but lo and behold they meant it and the game was shutdown at the end of April. Doing some of my own research as well as watching some videos of others who did research, I found out that around the time of the original community post Fortnite had been released in July of the previous year but had really started to take off relatively recently, and instead of sticking around to fix their mistakes and have two very successful games, Epic canned Paragon at lightning speed to put everything behind their new money-maker. Originally I was just sad about it, but then I gave Fortnite a try and I became livid, for the reasons I stated earlier: to me, this was an incomplete game meant to appeal to and manipulate casual gamers to make massive amounts of money, and the anger only swelled when I learned about what happened with Bluehole and PUBG.
Originally I didn't like the game for these reasons and because it originally launched with only the one mode and a paid other mode that no one really cared about, which to me felt like gutted content as someone who was used to playing many FTP FPS/TPS that had many different modes to select from. However they have rectified this issue now with offering essentially Team Death Match and other modes that are seemingly permanent additions as well as rotating game modes, and honestly some of the content they add that isn't just a skin or a dance I find to be acceptable.
However, they can never escape the fact that the reason for Fortnite's success stands on the the graves of betrayal to both another company they were working with and their own players's trust. From what I researched a couple of years ago, Bluehole (who owns PUBG) went to Epic Games to pay to use Unreal Engine and assets to make PUBG. This means they would have to tell them what they were attempting to make and come to a deal, which they did. However, Epic Games loved the idea of a battle royale so much that they basically screwed over Bluehole by being a company with way more money and assets and turning Fortnite into what it is today. See, originally Fortnite was a failed idea of what I believe was just a wacky-looking tower defense/fort defense game that would have played similar to Borderlands, but it was deemed a failure of an idea and was killed. When Epic Games got wind from Bluehole about PUBG, they took that dead project and ripped the idea of a battle royale and made Fortnite what it is now, with the original art style that is kid-friendly, some small changes like making it a TPS and adding a building mechanic from the original Fortnite concept, and making it FTP because they could afford it while Bluehole HAD to make PUBG have an entry fee to afford the investment they made being a smaller company at the time.
This essentially almost gutted PUBG entirely and shot Fortnite up to where it is today: ripping off someone else's idea and making it in such a way that it kills the competition of the company you just contracted with and appeals to children to manipulate them into begging their parents for money. Fortunately, from what I've heard and seen, PUBG has seen serious success in the face of all of this, yet no where NEAR what Fortnite has or what could have been had they not been so scummy.
Now, for my bias and anger...
I was a HUGE fan of Paragon. If you don't know that game, I'm not surprised, but it was essentially a third-person MOBA (similar to Smite) that was on PC and PS4 and made every other MOBA look like trash in terms of graphical fidelity as well as combining the elements of MOBAs that worked while also adding just a dash of their own spin to make things fun and unique. I plugged hours into this game, playing it before and after work nearly every day. I subscribed to so many channels, talked in their official forums, attended dev streams...I jumped into this game hardcore!
Unfortunately, Epic Games once again showed their inability to make something original and make good decisions with it, because they then introduced a brand-new map with new mechanics and removed the original that people loved so dearly. They lost a sizable chunk of the player base that they never got back, but there was still enough to go on to be successful. Then they completely overhauled their item system to feature a new but more confusing and very limited card system that fundamentally changed the game a second time, and they hemorrhaged players again. I remember when they were originally released a brand new champion, with lore, some skins and other cool cosmetics, at a regular interval of every three weeks...but shortly after this system change, they had been promising a champion named Boris who was a Russian bear in a mech armed to the teeth...and he never came.
A couple months after not getting the next promised champion, the dev team made a post on the official forums. It was essentially a post asking the community what they could do to improve the game. Believe it or not, I had never seen so many pages upon pages of posts that were entirely constructive and not offensive or insulting, offering advice on what they think should be done to keep the game going, and most of them added up to adding an official ranked mode, bringing back the old map and letting players choose which one to play on, and bringing back the old item system. The community knew what they wanted and were actively willing to work with the dev team in a healthy manner to keep the game they wanted to much alive.
Around a week later, we got a post saying that the dev team was getting pulled from Paragon, that it would be officially shut down in April of that year, and no acknowledgement to the ideas offered to improve the game. I remember being dazed about the whole thing, and the community seemed just as confused, but lo and behold they meant it and the game was shutdown at the end of April. Doing some of my own research as well as watching some videos of others who did research, I found out that around the time of the original community post Fortnite had been released in July of the previous year but had really started to take off relatively recently, and instead of sticking around to fix their mistakes and have two very successful games, Epic canned Paragon at lightning speed to put everything behind their new money-maker. Originally I was just sad about it, but then I gave Fortnite a try and I became livid, for the reasons I stated earlier: to me, this was an incomplete game meant to appeal to and manipulate casual gamers to make massive amounts of money, and the anger only swelled when I learned about what happened with Bluehole and PUBG.
Of course I understand that they did nothing illegal as far as I know and that the business world is cutthroat so I understand why they made these decisions, and over time I've come to terms with things and am not nearly as angry or upset about it now. However, it's because of this that whenever I think about Fortnite, my first thought is about how Paragon was killed for a game I find to be inferior and exploitative, and whenever I think of Blizzard I think of a once-good company who now cares about money more than people's lives or rights.
I don't think Nintendo should go to these companies to put characters into Smash when the list of requests is still as long as it is.
MagnesD3
Smash Master
For me it’s because it’s simply looks uninteresting, jonesy is barely a character from my understanding, he isn’t iconic, and the artstyle looks incredibly bland.
Evil Trapezium
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Come on Klonoa! Let the boy have his overdue victory!
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Commander_Alph
Smash Lord
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I mean you do you, I'm open to any character and any company, I mean we all know that competitive multiplayer game is born to be hated in the first and about THAT controversy surrounding Blizzard, I just think they're not shilling for China just because half of the game is owned by them and they're an easy target and it's understandable to shut that player up because it's inappropriate to just bringing unrelated political movement to a game tournament that want to be politically neutral and an scapegoat from reality, it's like if a game developer suddenly bust out a shirt against the government on E3 or TGA but, the way they handle it is really poor.
Regarding Fortnite and Epic Games and your bias I just think that Fortnite is a big improvement from PUBG with interesting ensemble of costume and an ongoing lore that spread from season to season which is pretty spectacular even if it cost the old map to be remove which at least have a reason to do that in the first place cause almost everyone knows every inch and corner of the map considering how the fanbase grow faster and faster by a minute it's understandable.
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SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
My only issue with Klonoa is that, iirc, his main ability is to turn his enemies into cubes and balls and such. Not saying he shouldn't be in, but I feel like that would be kinda disturbing to watch, especially against characters like Snake.
I'm probably just thinking too hard about it.
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Guynamednelson
Smash Legend
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But you're still financially supporting unwholesome and dishonest practices by giving Activision your money for Crash/Spyro. I began to regret purchasing CTR Nitro-Fueled the moment microtransactions were announced for it.
Some of the things you've posted make me doubt that.
Commander_Alph
Smash Lord
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Other than an animation company of course, gotta write that down
3BitSaurus
Smash Master
Yeah, Kirby being turned into a ball sounds really disturbing.
...Wait a minute.
(On a serious note, I'm assuming it would act as a regular command throw. Not because it`s disturbing or anything, but because it's easier than making assets for all characters so far. Or maybe they can just make a sphere and "paste" a 2D texture of the characters on top of it, with a limb or two extruding, I suppose. It's how it pretty much looked in the games.)
PS: I was going to post an image of Klonoa's Wind Bullet here to illustrate my point and it made me remember why you're not supposed to Google search for it. So, uh... maybe you have a point there.
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SharkLord
Smash Hero
I try not to think about that
Granted, he'd probably just trap them in a wind ball. Creating ballooned versions of the entire roster would probably take a very long time.
Then again, they did redo every stage for Steve...
Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
I find Post-Pass 2 individual DLC to be a lot more likely tbh.
Even then I expect this is after this Pass.
Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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Klonoa has kind of... the same issue as Taizo Hori (Dig Dug)
and thinking about it makes me uhhhh Very Uncomfortable
so yeah
and thinking about it makes me uhhhh Very Uncomfortable
so yeah
SharkLord
Smash Hero
Without going into detail, there's a very good reason we humans say "Try not to think about it too much."
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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The only eldritch horror Smash needs is Giygas. And he should be a boss, not a PC.
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Commander_Alph
Smash Lord
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This reminds me of the day when I was in Deviantart.. don't ask why and "Ah yes, inflation"
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GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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Jonesy, Saber, and... ****, normally Steve would be here. I guess Gen 8 Pokemon will take its place.
Commander_Alph
Smash Lord
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Which Saber
Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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DUDE TMI WE WERE TRYING TO AVOID THIS
Commander_Alph
Smash Lord
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OH **** OH **** I'M SORRY!!
GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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Any and all of themWhich Saber
SharkLord
Smash Hero
A Klonoa Encore trademark update led to... this
Also I am listening to a song about how tables deserve to die
All that needs to be said
Also I am listening to a song about how tables deserve to die
All that needs to be said
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I mean I dislike modern blizzard as much as anyone else, but why are you comparing Blizzard post-Activision acquisition and justifying Crash/Spyro by saying that they weren't "originally" Activision. Sure they may not be as steeped into controversy as Blizzard IPs have been in the last decade, but if we're talking about "an era that was a bit more wholesome and honest" I don't see how Blizzard can't represent that (assuming you are talking about the 90's, of course).
If it's just a stance against the company, then both sides of Activision-Blizzard are pretty dang bad currently. Obviously, there's the whole China controversy, Diablo mobile game, and the rest on Blizzard's side; but ultimately, they're both under the same umbrella. Any controversy steeped around Blizzard/Activision, also should reflect upon Activision Blizzard as a whole. Not to mention Activison also being steeped in it's own problems currently, such as getting CoD sponsored by the US Army, crunch time, predatory microtransactions and the like.
While your issues on Epic sound more personal (which is a fine reason not to want representation). I will say that from what I've seen Fortnite and PUBG do enough different, and they're as much of a "rip-off" as the original Sonic game was to Mario (AKA not really, they just go for the same audience). Anytime a new "breakout" game happens, eventually it'll inspire some of it's own competition. That's just how things go.
But personally, I just think it's a little hypocritical to dismiss everyone from Activision-Blizzard due to the companies various problems but at the same time say Crash and Spyro are OK because they weren't originally Activision-Blizzard and they represent the sweet 90's era of honest gaming. When that's kinda besides the point.
Personally I'm fine with Activision-Blizzard (and any of their IPs like Crash/Warcraft/etc) getting represented. Not because I support their business practices, but rather because it's useless to think of big corpo's as the "good" guy 95% of the time (this includes Nintendo). Almost every big company does some shady stuff, and while it does make me uncomfortable; the world is too big to worry about everything wrong with it.
Icedragonadam
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Klonoa at best to me is a mii costume, coincidentally that was one of Presea's costumes. So it would be fitting to be one of the mii costumes in Lloyd's mii wave.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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No, you said:
...and that is factually incorrect.
I mean, kinda. If everyone just shrugs and goes "Well, that's business!" then there's absolutely no reason for them to stop.
The only way to make a corporation be less evil is to make being evil hurt their business.
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Professor Pumpkaboo
Lady Layton| Trap Queen♥
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You act like its ww3 when it gets mentioned when most people dont care pff
Þe 1 → Way
Smash Champion
As much as I love Eldritch horrors, I feel like those guys are better suited towards bosses or stage hazards.
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Sounds like somebody never played a Kirby game...I am just throwing it out there again, Smash is lacking in eldritch monstrosities as playable characters and WoW 8.3 being followed up by Shadowlands is probably the biggest middle finger to the games lore in its entirely, so to correct these wrongs, one of the WoW Old Gods being in Smash in some form would be a good change of pace.
There is a 0% chance of this happening, but I can dream.
Anyway, what's wrong with WOW at the moment? I've never played it, but apparently they've made a bunch of stupid decisions with the story.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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Anything Fortnite.
Anything Fire Emblem.
Anything Touhou.
Only idiots and 10-year-olds need to have Hayabusa explained to them.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
Yeah I pretty much expect an enhanced port of Smash Ultimate DX or whatever they decide to call it as a Switch 2 launch title. With just enough characters & echoes to hit 100 for marketing purposes. I doubt they go for a completely new game just yet.
Evil Trapezium
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TheCJBrine
Smash Legend
you sure are rude about ATs, asserting everyone is in denial for thinking ATs have a chance.
An example of the correct usage of "fan rule."
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Cosmic77
Smash Hero
I really hope they don't go that route. I'm still bummed that the Switch doesn't have a Mario Kart game of its own. Aside from Mario Kart Tour, we haven't had a new Mario Kart game since 2014.
Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
I mean it's never happened before in the last two games. And I'm talking about in the same game not like Little Mac from Brawl to Sm4sh or Dark Samus and Isabelle from Sm4sh to Ultimate.
Þe 1 → Way
Smash Champion
If Ultimate did get ported, what do you guys wish would come with it?
My hope is for WoL epilogue featuring a smaller story. That and the return of a proper all star mode.
My hope is for WoL epilogue featuring a smaller story. That and the return of a proper all star mode.
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Technomage
Smash Champion
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I, too, would love a proper allstar mode.
I would also like more bosses (and a mode that allows players to fight any boss at any time they want) and Smash Run.
Ivander
Smash Legend
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Smash Run. And with that, added mooks for some Spirit battles.
Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
More modes such as Boss Rush, Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, WoL expanded with more story and cutscenes to it, etc.
Also additional characters and stages.
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