Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Ivander]

Okay, off topic, but has the Fate series ever turned a female into a male? Or does it only turn males into females? Either way, I'm dangerously tempted to make another Bowsette joke.

It hasn't turned a female into a male...not exactly. In the main Fate universe, they are female, but in a couple different dimensions, they are male, like King Arthur and Nobunaga and their male forms are playable in Grand Order after their female versions have come out. But in terms of actually turning a female character into a male character, not really, with the only exception technically being Caenis.
Caenis in her legend was a female, but after Poseidon did stuff to her and he was willing to give her a wish for how good it was, traumatised, she wished to be a man and Poseidon turned her into a man(and became Caeneus) and also gave her/him some other power-ups. Caeneus would not become a woman again until he died and his body turned back.
In FGO, she/he is summoned in her female form Caenis, but very much sees herself as Caeneus as she is still pretty traumatised with what happened with Poseidon. This is also shown in the Valentine event, where she is the only female who doesn't give you a gift like the other females or genderless characters, but you give a gift to her like all the other male characters. So Caenis is probably the closest to an actual female-to-male character.

But it's unsurprising why they change a bunch of male characters into female characters. For one, their original reasoning when the game was first coming out was because history does not have a lot of female heroes and they didn't want there to be a big gap between male and female heroes, so they changed a bunch into female heroes. Nowadays, the females really outnumber the males and it's pretty much because the female characters sell like any other Gacha game.
And lately, the descriptions and reasons for why the character is female have been getting alot more loose, feel like they are really reaching or they have outright been fusing heroes together to ensure a female character, like in the case of Van Gogh who was merged with a nymph from Greek Mythology and it's the nymph who is the main form, but her abilities are Van Gogh's.

 

[Commander_Alph]

like in the case of Van Gogh who was merged with a nymph from Greek Mythology and it's the nymph who is the main form, but her abilities are Van Gogh's.

And the reason they do that because in the actual story he is mentally ill and eventually commit die, tl;dr they eventually merge? Van Gogh with a nymph, Clytie who only related to him because she has something to do with sunflower and a will to not die. This reason is more related to the in-game lore btw. And this make the community shook because everyone thought it was supposed to be Van Gogh's sister since they only refer her as just Van Gogh.

 

[Ivander]

And the reason they do that because in the actual story he is mentally ill and eventually commit die, tl;dr they eventually merge? Van Gogh with a nymph, Clytie who only related to him because she has something to do with sunflower and a will to not die. This reason is more related to the in-game lore btw. And this make the community shook because everyone thought it was supposed to be Van Gogh's sister since they only refer her as just Van Gogh.

Except they confirmed he can actually be a Servant. I know the reason why he was merged with Clytie was because Van Gogh was willing to die to prevent the Foreigner God or "Great Old One" from trying to control him. Some of the Foreign Gods, or "Great Old Ones" had an affinity for people with painting talents, like Hokusai, and they wanted to use their abilities granted to their Heroic Spirit versions, but in Van Gogh's case, he wasn't having any of it and committing suicide to prevent that. So in order to deal with that, the Foreign God fused his abilities and whatnot to a Heroic Spirit that was unwilling to die, being Clytie. This would allow the Foreigner God to take control without worry of "Van Gogh" trying to kill themselves to prevent that.
But they did confirm that Van Gogh himself can be a Servant, much like Hokusai, Hans Anderson, Shakesphere, etc. And him having Madness and Madness Enhancement wouldn't be surprising. Because there are a ton of Servants with health issues and curses that have stuck with them.

• Okita Souji still has tuberculosis with her due to her illness being well-known.
• Saber Gilles de Rais, despite being much more sane compared to his Caster version, still has Madness Enhancement.
• Rama's Curse of Seperation with Sita is still with him.
• Then you have frickin' Salieri where just the popular rumor of him murdering Mozart and being the "Man in Grey" was enough to make him an Avenger class that is "forced" to kill Mozart, despite the fact that both were actually decent people to each other in real life.
• And the same case is there with Brynhilda who has a curse that makes her forced to kill Sigurd when he's around or eventually see someone she cares about "as Sigurd".

So Van Gogh bringing his mental illness to his Heroic Spirit version would not be anything new.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I've got to stop reading this thread when I'm sleepy because the recent discussion had me briefly wondering about Van Gogh's viability as a Smash Fighter.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Except they confirmed he can actually be a Servant. I know the reason why he was merged with Clytie was because Van Gogh was willing to die to prevent the Foreigner God or "Great Old One" from trying to control him. Some of the Foreign Gods, or "Great Old Ones" had an affinity for people with painting talents, like Hokusai, and they wanted to use their abilities granted to their Heroic Spirit versions, but in Van Gogh's case, he wasn't having any of it and committing suicide to prevent that. So in order to deal with that, the Foreign God fused his abilities and whatnot to a Heroic Spirit that was unwilling to die, being Clytie. This would allow the Foreigner God to take control without worry of "Van Gogh" trying to kill themselves to prevent that.
But they did confirm that Van Gogh himself can be a Servant, much like Hokusai, Hans Anderson, Shakesphere, etc. And him having Madness and Madness Enhancement wouldn't be surprising. Because there are a ton of Servants with health issues and curses that have stuck with them.

• Okita Souji still has tuberculosis with her due to her illness being well-known.
• Saber Gilles de Rais, despite being much more sane compared to his Caster version, still has Madness Enhancement.
• Rama's Curse of Seperation with Sita is still with him.
• Then you have frickin' Salieri where just the popular rumor of him murdering Mozart and being the "Man in Grey" was enough to make him an Avenger class that is "forced" to kill Mozart, despite the fact that both were actually decent people to each other in real life.
• And the same case is there with Brynhilda who has a curse that makes her forced to kill Sigurd when he's around or eventually see someone she cares about "as Sigurd".

So Van Gogh bringing his mental illness to his Heroic Spirit version would not be anything new.

Huh, I don't remember that detail

 

[Ivander]

I've got to stop reading this thread when I'm sleepy because the recent discussion had me briefly wondering about Van Gogh's viability as a Smash Fighter.

Well...one way or another...

Spoiler

Spoiler

They'd certainly be a unique and interesting fighter. And an Eldritch Abomination character in the case of their 3rd form.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I've got to stop reading this thread when I'm sleepy because the recent discussion had me briefly wondering about Van Gogh's viability as a Smash Fighter.

This is Fate we're talking about. Get used to it.

 

[Ivander]

Thought I was editing instead of replying.

 

[PeridotGX]

The Brawl Mod I won't stop talking about has a Fate character - Elizabeth. I know literally nothing about her or the series, but she's pretty fun to play.

 

[Ivander]

The Brawl Mod I won't stop talking about has a Fate character - Elizabeth. I know literally nothing about her or the series, but she's pretty fun to play.

She's Elizabeth Bathory. Yes, that Elizabeth Bathory. Who's part dragon due to a skill called Innocent Monster and she wants to be an idol. And has a rivalry with Nero between their singing, yet everyone agrees both sing horribly(despite that Nero's voice actor, Sakura Tange, was once a singer).

 

[Gengar84]

Y’all Samurai Warriors 5 art is making me want Nobunaga Oda in Smash Bros. Send help.

Always been more of a Samurai Warriors and Warriors Orochi fan over Dynasty Warriors and I know it’s not happening but I’m realizing how much is love him in as our first representative as a pseudo-villain for a 3rd Party Franchises debut. But anyways I’m super excited for SW5 and think y’all should check it out.

I’ve always really liked both series. I would absolutely love to see Kotaro Fuuma in Smash. He has such a cool design and really interesting moveset.

 

[chocolatejr9]

She's Elizabeth Bathory. Yes, that Elizabeth Bathory. Who's part dragon due to a skill called Innocent Monster and she wants to be an idol. And has a rivalry with Nero between their singing, yet everyone agrees both sing horribly(despite that Nero's voice actor, Sakura Tange, was once a singer).

I hope you're prepared to educate us in the off chance Fate gets a character in Smash...

 

[CapitaineCrash]

While we're on the topic of Spirit Board events, I'mma redo my predictions for future events that I did a few weeks ago. I got the Bowser's Fury event spot-on, in my last post, though that was a fairly easy guess.

• New Pokémon Snap - I think this is a high possibility because well it's Pokémon, but since they seem averse to putting in human Pokémon characters in as Spirits, it'd have to be just the NEO-ONE. Maybe they could do like they did with Warframe, where it was added just as part of a more general themed event. And like Lotus enhancing into Natah, they could have the ZERO-ONE enhancing into the NEO-ONE.
• Neo: The World Ends with You - More confident on this one than ever, Nintendo is really promoting it a lot. Not to mention Rindo, Sho, Nagi, and Fret add up to a perfect four for a Spirit event, which seems to be the devs' preferred number for some reason.
• The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles - I don't necessarily think we'll be getting Ryunosuke Naruhodo and Co. as an event, but the release timing of this game makes me think it's a strong possibility we'll get Phoenix Wright and Co. around the same time to promote the series in general, kinda like what happened with Resident Evil. I'd imagine for this case it'd be Phoenix, Edgeworth, Maya, and Apollo. But maybe you can replace one with Ryunosuke if they really want that promotion.
• Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection - Same vein as above really, just a time to promote a strong 3rd party if the negotiations for a fighter didn't line up. In this one it'd probably Ryu, Momiji, Irene, and MAYBE Kasumi and/or Ayane if they want to get that DoA crossover that the devs love so much. And sorry but I kinda doubt Rachel's chances with that outfit lol
• I no longer think we'll be seeing any Skyward Sword HD Spirits (also everyone seems to have forgotten it's coming out anyways) because unlike the Link's Awakening remake, it's not in a different art style so it'd be pretty redundant with the SS content already in the game.
• In a similar vein, the lack of a name for the protagonist and Ayumi Tachibana already being a Spirit makes me doubt any Famicom Detective Club event.
• One last important thing to note is that of our two years with this game so far, it seems that Spirit Board events ramp up a bit before E3 and summer and then go into a drought for the fall. Of course we only have two years of example so it's not a hard rule but it's something to keep in mind.

What games do you guys feel are getting events in the coming months?

This post made me learned that Ayumi isn't the protagonist of Famicom detective club. I always thought she was since she's the more discussed and was the character considered for Melee.

Also, there's other big release coming this summer that might have spirit events, although I would say the chances might be low for some
-In June Mario golf super rush will released. Now I'm not sure if they would really want to do a spirit board with this theme, but to be fair we do have spirits with Tennis costumes for Mario and Luigi, so they could probably do something like: Mario (Mario golf super rush), Luigi (Mario golf super rush), Peach (Mario golf super rush) and Bowser (Mario golf super rush).
-Monster hunter stories 2 released in July. Now, I know that Monster hunter just got an event, but this game will probably be pushed a lot this summer by Nintendo. Not sure how much potential it really have for new spirits since I know nothing about Monster hunter, but maybe they could do something.
-No more heroes 3 released in August. Travis have a mii, but no spirits, so I feel like they could easily do a small spirits board (but again, I know nothing about No more heroes so I'm not sure what they can do aside from Travis himself). Considering how close Suda is to Sakurai and the fact that there's already a mii, I feel like this is the safest one to predict.

 

[Ivander]

I hope you're prepared to educate us in the off chance Fate gets a character in Smash...

Believe me. If we get a Fate character, there is absolutely no doubt it will Saber or Artoria/King Arthur. Besides being super popular in Japan, she gets so much attention from her creators. There is a reason why she has a version of her in almost all classes, why Grand Order's main stories each have a Chapter that focuses on Camelot/Britain and why there are a lot of other characters who have no relation to her, yet look alot like her to the point there is the term "Saberface or Artoria-face". It's pretty much a 99.999999999999% chance of our Fate character being Saber and a 00.000000000001 chance of it being another character, likely being Archer, Shirou or Mash.

The good news is that there isn't a lot needed for education on with Saber Artoria, aside from a couple of her Noble Phantasms or abilities, like Invisible Air.

Edit: The actual sad thing is that I'd love for Arc System Works to do a Fate fighting game, since Fate has a lot of cool characters they can use, but I don't know if that'll be a possibility when they have the Grand Order Arcade Gacha game that is a 3v3 fighter similarly to Dissidia NT. The Count of Monte Cristo would be awesome.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I hope you're prepared to educate us in the off chance Fate gets a character in Smash...

Well, at this point, I know what franchise I would have to teach you guys about in the event that it gets a fighter in Smash...

Say, seems like a couple of us have a character like that on the speculation backburner, doesn’t it?

 

[DarthEnderX]

The actual sad thing is that I'd love for Arc System Works to do a Fate fighting game

Everyone wants ArcSys to do a fighting game of their favorite anime thing.

I want an ArcSys One Piece game. But hopefully without 10 different Luffys.

Say, seems like a couple of us have a character like that on the speculation backburner, doesn’t it?

Nah. I'm pretty sure Umihara Kawase is pretty common knowledge.

 

[Gnateb]

Speaking of ArcSys fighting games...
Sm4sh DLC, base game Smash Ultimate, and Fighters Pass 1 all had a fighting game character. What do you think the chances of another in FP2 are, and who do you think it would be?

I'd place my bet on Sol, to be honest. Popular choice for a fighting game character, I know, but he has the best chance in my opinion.

I also main the fighting game guys so I would have zero issues with another.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Believe me. If we get a Fate character, there is absolutely no doubt it will Saber or Artoria/King Arthur.

Damn, I would kill if they give Artoria an alt costume of the male Arthur from Fate/Prototype, I don't know how similar they are in ability but it would be fun to confuse everyone who doesn't know anything about Fate. Oh, and also Shirou could be the second viable option, would love to see Unlimited Blade Work as his Final Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What do you think the chances of another in FP2 are, and who do you think it would be?

Hayabusa is a DoA character, so 100%.

 

[PeridotGX]

Speaking of ArcSys fighting games...
Sm4sh DLC, base game Smash Ultimate, and Fighters Pass 1 all had a fighting game character. What do you think the chances of another in FP2 are, and who do you think it would be?

I'd place my bet on Sol, to be honest. Popular choice for a fighting game character, I know, but he has the best chance in my opinion.

I also main the fighting game guys so I would have zero issues with another.

I think an ARMS rep has a pretty good shot. Min Min, perhaps?

 

[Gnateb]

I think an ARMS rep has a pretty good shot. Min Min, perhaps?

Oh yep, yep, yep.
Forgot she was a "fighting game character" because she doesn't autoturnaround like the rest.

 

[Ivander]

Damn, I would kill if they give Artoria an alt costume of the male Arthur from Fate/Prototype, I don't know how similar they are in ability but it would be fun to confuse everyone who doesn't know anything about Fate. Oh, and also Shirou could be the second viable option, would love to see Unlimited Blade Work as his Final Smash.

Male Arthur ability-wise, he does have the same abilities as her for the most part(not counting Grand Order). However, size is an actual issue as he is much taller than regular Artoria. It also doesn't help that in Grand Order, he mostly wields Excalibur with one hand while Artoria mainly wields Excalibur with both hands. So I don't think he'd be able to fit as alternate costume material.
If Saber were to get an alt costume, the most likely one would be Saber Alter, although it does depend on whether they are willing to replace the light energy effects with darkness energy effects. If they can't give her Saber Alter due to not wanting to change the light effect to darkness, they could use her 3rd Ascension or her MHX costume from Extella as an Alt costume.

 

[AnEasterEgg]

Yeah, Arms definitely isn't what most people think of regarding the term fighting game. It's like how if you take the term role-playing game literally it applies to almost every video game, but that's obviously not how people actually define it.

Like, there's a line, but it's fuzzy. I think most of us can agree not every game involving combat is automatically a fighting game, but exactly what does qualify is tough. Arms itself isn't in "definitively not a fighting game" territory, but it's hardly traditional either.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Male Arthur ability-wise, he does have the same abilities as her for the most part(not counting Grand Order). However, size is an actual issue as he is much taller than regular Artoria. It also doesn't help that in Grand Order, he mostly wields Excalibur with one hand while Artoria mainly wields Excalibur with both hands. So I don't think he'd be able to fit as alternate costume material.
If Saber were to get an alt costume, the most likely one would be Saber Alter, although it does depend on whether they are willing to replace the light energy effects with darkness energy effects. If they can't give her Saber Alter due to not wanting to change the light effect to darkness, they could use her 3rd Ascension or her MHX costume from Extella as an Alt costume.

Artoria alter is a really obvious recolor/costume to have really I can't argue with that, other options include her casual and business suit but it just look very basic.

 

[Cosmic77]

ARMS is a boxing game at its core, so "fighting" would be the best label for it. It may not be very similar to Street Fighter or Tekken, but games like those aren't the the only forms that fighting games take. Punch Out is definitely a fighting game, and ARMS has a very similar premise, only with some extra bells and whistles attached.

 

[cashregister9]

Artoria alter is a really obvious recolor/costume to have really I can't argue with that, other options include her casual and business suit but it just look very basic.

Mysterious Heroine X and Maybe MHX Alter could potentially be other Alts that I could feasibly see.

 

[DevaAshera]

which character in smash do you feel it deserve to be reworked or upgraded?
i would say

Oh, and also , both of them could pull more from Majora's Mask and Wind Waker for unique moves and weapons rather than just being Link Lite.
Especially Young Link, who I want to have as his Majora's Mask version since that is the game where he actually uses a Bow and Hookshot as well as being the primary Link for that game.

Male Arthur ability-wise, he does have the same abilities as her for the most part(not counting Grand Order). However, size is an actual issue as he is much taller than regular Artoria. It also doesn't help that in Grand Order, he mostly wields Excalibur with one hand while Artoria mainly wields Excalibur with both hands. So I don't think he'd be able to fit as alternate costume material.
If Saber were to get an alt costume, the most likely one would be Saber Alter, although it does depend on whether they are willing to replace the light energy effects with darkness energy effects. If they can't give her Saber Alter due to not wanting to change the light effect to darkness, they could use her 3rd Ascension or her MHX costume from Extella as an Alt costume.

Prototype (Male) Arthur could be shrunk similarly to how female Byleth, Corrin, and Robin were made taller to work as alts for their male counterparts.
I'm sure they wouldn't mind slight colour differences for Saber Alter.

Mysterious Heroine X and Maybe MHX Alter could potentially be other Alts that I could feasibly see.

They could work well enough.

 

[Doc Monocle]

Oh, and also , both of them could pull more from Majora's Mask and Wind Waker for unique moves and weapons rather than just being Link Lite.

Or they could just (thunder and lightning)... disappear.

 

[ahemtoday]

ARMS is a boxing game at its core, so "fighting" would be the best label for it. It may not be very similar to Street Fighter or Tekken, but games like those aren't the the only forms that fighting games take. Punch Out is definitely a fighting game, and ARMS has a very similar premise, only with some extra bells and whistles attached.

I would not call Punch-Out a fighting game. Its main focus is on single-player, with only a minor multiplayer side mode in the latest installment. Which doesn't let you play as different characters. Fighting against other people with a roster of selectable characters is what makes a fighting game a fighting game, in my opinion, and Punch-Out only hits two out of three on a good day.

 

[Ivander]

Prototype (Male) Arthur could be shrunk similarly to how female Byleth, Corrin, and Robin were made taller to work as alts for their male counterparts.

Yeah, Female Robin and Female Byleth are slightly smaller, but Female Corrin was the same size as Male Corrin. But that aside, it definitely can't work with Artoria and Arther. Why exactly? When you look at Robin and Byleth's original sizes, they aren't that much smaller compared to their Male counterparts. The top of Female Byleth's head will reach Male Byleth's forehead. Female Byleth is slightly smaller, but they are still pretty close together in height.

Artoria and Arthur? Artoria is 154 cm. Arthur is 181 cm. Artoria barely reaches the top of Arthur's shoulders while Arthur's head and neck tower over Artoria. Compared to the Male Avatars default bodies to the Female Avatars default bodies, Arthur is frickin' huge compared to Artoria.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, Punch Out's not a fighter, it's a single player game based on pattern recognition in which you follow the script of the fights, there's a reason Punch Out never had a competitive scene, even with multiplayer in the Wii game. Arms is also a tech demo first and foremost like Star Fox and F Zero, once Nintendo abandons joycons and motion controls, Arms will be abandoned too

 

[Idon]

ARMS is a boxing game at its core, so "fighting" would be the best label for it. It may not be very similar to Street Fighter or Tekken, but games like those aren't the the only forms that fighting games take. Punch Out is definitely a fighting game, and ARMS has a very similar premise, only with some extra bells and whistles attached.

Punch Out is as much a fighting game as Dark Souls is, ie not at all.

Actually no, Dark Souls at least has PvP and a dedicated arena so you can't really even say that for Punch Out.

 

[osby]

Yeah, Punch Out's not a fighter, it's a single player game based on pattern recognition in which you follow the script of the fights, there's a reason Punch Out never had a competitive scene, even with multiplayer in the Wii game. Arms is also a tech demo first and foremost like Star Fox and F Zero, once Nintendo abandons joycons and motion controls, Arms will be abandoned too

Nintendo abandoning motion controls

Alright, ARMS is here to stay.

 

[DevaAshera]

Or they could just (thunder and lightning)... disappear.

Yeah..but I don't want them too..

Yeah, Female Robin and Female Byleth are slightly smaller, but Female Corrin was the same size as Male Corrin. But that aside, it definitely can't work with Artoria and Arther. Why exactly? When you look at Robin and Byleth's original sizes, they aren't that much smaller compared to their Male counterparts. The top of Female Byleth's head will reach Male Byleth's forehead. Female Byleth is slightly smaller, but they are still pretty close together in height.

Artoria and Arthur? Artoria is 154 cm. Arthur is 181 cm. Artoria barely reaches the top of Arthur's shoulders while Arthur's head and neck tower over Artoria. Compared to the Male Avatars default bodies to the Female Avatars default bodies, Arthur is frickin' huge compared to Artoria.

Female Corrin is still shorter than male Corrin, if only by a little bit, and yes, the size difference is a bit more between Artoria and Arthur, being 5'0" and 5'9" respectively, while Byleth's size differences are 5'3" and 5'7", but I don't really think anyone would be up in arms if they were tweaked a little bit..a potential middle ground being making Artoria slightly taller while making Arthur slightly shorter, the difference would hardly be noticeable that way, considering the fandom already sees her sizes tweaked a bit between appearances anyway depending on the artist.

 

[N3ON]

Arms is also a tech demo first and foremost like Star Fox and F Zero, once Nintendo abandons joycons and motion controls, Arms will be abandoned too

Yeah Nintendo dropped F-Zero and Star Fox right after Mode 7 and the Super FX chip became outdated in the mid-90s.

Hold on a second...

ARMS will get dropped by Nintendo once it starts selling below expectations.

 

[Doc Monocle]

Yeah..but I don't want them too..

I thought I could recruit someone in my "Make Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, and Toon Link Go Away" campaign with the incentive of four less characters to worry about... but it was worth trying!

Edit: My mistake! I confused this for the social thread.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah Nintendo dropped F-Zero and Star Fox right after Mode 7 and the Super FX chip became outdated in the mid-90s.

Hold on a second...

ARMS will get dropped by Nintendo once it starts selling below expectations.

Yeah, Star Fox and F Zero got dropped after Nintendo stopped caring about how strong their tech was unless they could tie a gimmick to it, glad we see eye to eye

 

[PSIGuy]

ARMS is a boxing game at its core, so "fighting" would be the best label for it. It may not be very similar to Street Fighter or Tekken, but games like those aren't the the only forms that fighting games take. Punch Out is definitely a fighting game, and ARMS has a very similar premise, only with some extra bells and whistles attached.

Punch-Out would be a Sports game, wouldn't it? It's an arcade-style boxing game.

 

[DevaAshera]

I thought I could recruit someone in my "Make Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, and Toon Link Go Away" campaign with the incentive of four less characters to worry about... but it was worth trying!

Edit: My mistake! I confused this for the social thread.

Nah, every character has their fans, so ideally I'd want everyone to stay..though Dr. Mario could at least be a costume ala Project M.
Young Link/Toon Link serves the purpose of representing all of the more youthful, child Links that appear throughout the series..and Toon Link is (regrettably) the most used Link design in the series. I don't think they'd be too bad off if they at least had different moves.

 

[Louie G.]

Punch-Out would be a Sports game, wouldn't it? It's an arcade-style boxing game.

Punch-Out is weird - it's like, a weird sort of arcade-styled strategy puzzle game? But "Sports" is probably the best label for it. It's a game that kind of transcends a proper label, and I love it for that. There's really no other game like it.

Definitely not a fighting game though, lmao.

I thought I could recruit someone in my "Make Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, and Toon Link Go Away" campaign with the incentive of four less characters to worry about... but it was worth trying!

Toon Link is great though, there's nobody else who represents that style of Zelda game. The "toon" games have taken on a life of their own and I feel they definitely warrant some form of character representation. I wouldn't be upset if Toon Link was replaced with Tetra or something, but I would be upset if they did away with "toon" characters altogether. Toon Link should definitely get some new moveset quirks next time around though.