Display of skill vs display of why bother

[Mistwyvern]

I've been looking forward to smash for wii u for a long time. I was excited to play online and have competitive fights 1v1 since I do not know anyone who plays smash. I've been a long time fan but never really good at it.

I'm officially quitting this game. Every fight online someone either roll spamming or running to corner And spamming projectiles. I never see any display of skill. I do not understand who is actually good at the game and who is just "look I found a way to just stand in the corner with link spam projectiles and if you close or jump im going to spam up a or smash attacks". It's utterly frustrating to even pick the controller and want to get good at the game. Is this really the competitive scene for you smash pros? It's really stupid if someone rolling literally 20 times then smash attack over and over playing catching me if you can is concidered competitive. Or standing in corner never leaving it spamming every projectile possible while I dodge for 5 minutes.

Someone give me some kind if motivation is continue playing this long awaited game.

If someone thinks it's fun or competitive to constantly spam same 2 moves over and over or roll the entire 5 minutes in a match and that's how they compete or think they're good then this isnt the game I thought it was. 300 online matches and I have 100 sudden death wins because all I get are these people just avoiding and doing nothing but spamming same smash attack over and over what am I missing? This is what smash is? So far it's plain brainless clueless stupidity that's not competitive or fun.

Someone correct me and encourage me to even bother playing

 

[Lazyboy0337]

They're spamming because you can't beat it. If you found an opponent that you could always easily grab, wouldn't you grab them as much as possible to win? Look at what they're specifically doing and counter it. Force them to fight close ranged.

 

[Munomario777]

Blame the players, not the game. With an online game, there's bound to be spammers, and as said, you need to adapt to fight against them. Read their actions and attack appropriately. They're spamming projectiles along the ground? Jump over them. They're rolling constantly? Predict which way they'll roll and punish them. They're spamming smash attacks? Get them during the charge-up or cool-down, or roll behind them and attack from the back.

Also, no one said For Glory was supposed to be competitive

 

[Deleted member]

There are two things to be said about this:

People stay on the edge of the stage and spam their projectiles and up smashes because they are working on you. There are ways to deal with this, and because of that, it is not even a strategy people use in actual tournaments. You can look up some of those 1v1 videos yourself if you'd like to see evidence of this.
Basically, they're doing it because you're not capable of countering it. If you learn how to do it, they'll try something different or lose to you.

But the second thing I want to say is that I don't just want to make the claim that you need to "git gud" or whatever. It sounds to me that you've only done 1v1 fights which are where such spam and keep-away playstyles aren't commonly punished by comparison to other modes.
Try some 2v2 in for glory. Or free-for-all matches in general. Or go to for fun for either cases. If the issue is the connection in regards to those modes, Wii U has much better netcode than the 3DS version, so there are less reasons to be worried about it.

If you're a fan of 1v1 without items though, and only want to play like that, and can't learn how to deal with final destination camping, try to find some friends to share their friend codes and online NNIDs so you can play outside of the omega stages. Because the omega stages are definitely not the only "competitive" stages in the game. In fact, they're some of the lesser chosen ones during tournament play. Playing online with friends will allow you to simulate that.

 

[Mistwyvern]

Thanks for the advice. But those who say adapt to it. Jump over it. The people camping in corners are just wait for you to get close to spam a smash or up a. So they know exactly what they are doing so just saying jump over it or whatever isn't the answer. Rolling and shielding and grabbing works but my point is then it's roll back into the corner and do it all over again. The point again is 1v1 doesnt feel compeitive. Which is a let down for me I thought it would be. Saying people who roll 100 times in a row and camp in a corner is because I can't stop it... Well yea no sh**lol. Rolling is pretty much impossible to stop especially when it's rolling into a corner. Stay low you get down smash spammed jump you get up smash spammed. Air dodge you get grabbed or *** combo'd. So why wouldn't peolle just play that way. Or am I missing something. If I cannot find a way to "counter" this play style that seems to rule for glory 1v1 then someone give some specific hints what I'm doing wrong. Replays and youtube display fights that aren't like that. Why can't I found fights that are competitive and not roll fest corner camping. I obviosly can't counter it so im letting the clock run down because they don't seem to actually want to fight. I don't see real Display of skill. So if any of you can say how you handle let's say a link who constantly back flips into corner spams every type of projectile and is smashing any direction as you get close, im all ears!

 

[SmashBro99]

You make it sound a lot worse than it is, it's pretty simple to beat that stuff, you can't and that's why they will keep doing it to you.

#play2win

 

[Mistwyvern]

Another thing I'd like to add is I know im getting pretty good i practice on difficulty 8 and I can win without losing a stock. I'm learning timing and spacing and countering. But like I said I cannot handle a fight where the opponent is camping and spamming. So all the practice and time and effort feels like it's for nothing because yea I can't handle someone who runs away and spams smashes and projectiles lol. That just doesn't sit right with me. Makes me feel like the game in fact caters to that play styles because I can't get close to punish it.

 

[Mistwyvern]

Smashbro99 you're not helping bro. You're not saying anything of value. Why don't you be specific in what you do??

 

[Munomario777]

Thanks for the advice. But those who say adapt to it. Jump over it. The people camping in corners are just wait for you to get close to spam a smash or up a. So they know exactly what they are doing so just saying jump over it or whatever isn't the answer. Rolling and shielding and grabbing works but my point is then it's roll back into the corner and do it all over again. The point again is 1v1 doesnt feel compeitive. Which is a let down for me I thought it would be. Saying people who roll 100 times in a row and camp in a corner is because I can't stop it... Well yea no sh**lol. Rolling is pretty much impossible to stop especially when it's rolling into a corner. Stay low you get down smash spammed jump you get up smash spammed. Air dodge you get grabbed or *** combo'd. So why wouldn't peolle just play that way. Or am I missing something. If I cannot find a way to "counter" this play style that seems to rule for glory 1v1 then someone give some specific hints what I'm doing wrong. Replays and youtube display fights that aren't like that. Why can't I found fights that are competitive and not roll fest corner camping. I obviosly can't counter it so im letting the clock run down because they don't seem to actually want to fight. I don't see real Display of skill. So if any of you can say how you handle let's say a link who constantly back flips into corner spams every type of projectile and is smashing any direction as you get close, im all ears!

If they're constantly rolling into the corner, remember that and meet them there to counterattack. If you're saying you get up/down smash spammed, first off those aren't really spammable attacks, since they knock you out of range. Second, the idea is to predict what they will do and react. If you see them charge up for an attack, roll away and get them from another angle. Air dodging isn't a good idea when you're low to the ground either, since it has huge endlag if you land halfway through the animation. How I would handle a Link that only rolls into the corner and projectile/smash attack spams: When they roll into the corner, I would chase them and attack when they get there. If they get to the projectile spamming phase, I would either use a reflector like Fox's if I have one, or I would roll, shield, and/or jump to approach. Then, I would use an attack to hit them, and if they use a smash attack, I would spot-dodge, roll, or counter depending on if I have a counter move available, and counterattack.

 

[SmashBro99]

Smashbro99 you're not helping bro. You're not saying anything of value. Why don't you be specific in what you do??

It's not easy to explain this, like obviously if you rush them while they spam and then they catch you with a smash, you need to learn how to space, and punish.

If they are doing the same thing over and over like you keep saying then stop falling for it and switch up your playstyle and how you approach.

 

[Inazuma]

Best advice I can give is to have an open mind and read David Sirlin's Playing to Win. If you can do this, you will pretty much instantly be 10 times better at video games.

 

[Raijinken]

If projectile spam is an issue, play Fox, Falco, Palutena, Mario, Dr. Mario, or Villager. If they're going to camp and spam, make it literally useless.

I would also consider trying to find players on the Boards willing to skirmish with you for practice. At least in those cases, you'd be able to get some feedback on your play and how to better counter certain strategies.

As for camping and spamming playstyles, the game doesn't cater to that any more than it caters to aggression. What it caters to is smart play. Always consider what you're doing, and why it isn't working. If you can't find a solution, then do what you're already doing, and seek advice from other players.

Some characters are designed to play defensively (i.e. Duck Hunt). Nothing can or will be done to change their design fundamentally, so learning ways to adapt to it is really the best way to go. As another option, one way to learn how to counter strategies is to attempt them yourself, and see how people react to it.

Lastly, it is notably more risky to play aggressively online when a sudden lag spike and input lag can completely ruin a combo. It's an inherent issue with online play, and one that's best fixed just by playing local. Don't treat online as any real measure of skill, treat it as a practice setting.

 

[sandslash]

You could also use moves that have some distance to them. Example is mega mans forward smash. When players roll because of the timing of this move if they roll backward a good majority of the time it will still connect with them. Also I play as pika alot and like to be really agressive but when i find someone who rolls a lot using something to space them like my thunder shock keeps them from constantly rolling. Its hard but change timings up.

 

[Pale Tuna]

For Glory is 85% brain-dead. <.< It's hard to find decent matches that show a decent amount of skill. My only suggestion to you is find a friend who isn't like one of those FG people and just play with them. It's a lot more rewarding, plus it nullifies the chance of lag from another player's end.

 

[PSIBoy]

The reason why For Glory has so many spammers on the here is because that's what people do when they're new at the game. Sometimes it is because of a character's design. But I know it's frustrating to play against. But For Glory isn't competitive in practice. If you want to go up against skilled players and improve, seek out some on Smashboards and play against them.

 

[Xermo]

Try finding good players through forums before claiming that for glory represents any part of the competitive community.

 

[Knife Myths]

If these people consistently beat you and you, in 300 matches, can't adapt to their simple strategies, why are you labeling them as the bad players?

If only they were truly skilled, they'd let you win? Think about what you're saying.

 

[PSIBoy]

If these people consistently beat you and you, in 300 matches, can't adapt to their simple strategies, why are you labeling them as the bad players?

If only they were truly skilled, they'd let you win? Think about what you're saying.

He never said they beat him. He said he won over 100 sudden death matches against them. He never specified exactly how many matches he lost.

 

[Knife Myths]

He never said they beat him. He said he won over 100 sudden death matches against them. He never specified exactly how many matches he lost.

I just kind of assumed. People don't usually rage like this over easy wins.

 

[Kwam$tack$]

Ive only ran into one really annoying person like this and it was a samus roll spammer. He was literally invincible, and after every roll he would charge his cannon but only in its initial frame before he would roll again and repeat until he was charged and then fire. Thats annoying because no attacks would hit him even though I timed his roll and read his moves perfectly (it might've been due to some lag though), and it was like he had perfect invinsibility.
As far as spammers go theyre easily combatable. Use your own projectiles or whatever u use for zoning, and when u get close to them, since most of em are ****ty players and dont really know howto play competitively, they'll typically roll inwards and u can read them easily and hit em with a dash attack, a downsmash, or a fsmash

 

[Evello]

There's no single cut-and-dry solution, but I actually don't run into that much projectile spam online. Obviously with characters like Link and Duck Hunt that strategy is pretty common, but I fight 10 time more Captain Falcons/Little Macs than I do DHD's.

Like people have said, projectile spam is not a winning strategy. Watch the pros; no one does it, because if you are skilled enough it can be exploited. There are ways to counter it with pretty much any character. I play Ike and Shulk, two guys with 0 projectiles, so believe me, I know how annoying it is. But if you experiment around with how you approach and shield/roll, there's always a way to close the gap. If they always roll behind you and flee, use an attack on them that hits both sides of you to punish the predicted roll. Rolling is a relatively safe movement option, but you are vulnerable at the end of a roll. Try to get them in a pattern of rolling you can exploit. Also, running is far faster than rolling with a lot (all?) of characters. If you know they're going to roll for the opposite side of the stage, chase them. Don't let them put another gap between you. It is part of the flow of smash that you have to choose to either approach or force an approach from the opponent. If you have no projectiles, you have to get used to the former. And Smash attacks generally are pretty slow to execute, so if you're getting walloped by those, you probably want to work on your reaction timing. I totally understand the struggle (my reflexes are garbage), so practice your shielding and rolling, or use a counter if you have one. When dealt with correctly, whiffed smash attacks are one of the biggest openings you have to kick the snot out of an opponent. But the people on the forums really can't help that much beyond what we're saying because we don't know the details. We don't know who you main, which projectile characters you're fighting, etc. And there is no one blanket strategy. Every match is different; you just need some practice reading opponents and adapting.

As for the competitiveness of For Glory, I would say it's a pretty good online mode. There's a little lag, which makes it harder to time long combo strings and annoying to avoid projectiles, but it runs passably smooth most of the time. And while I don't doubt you can beat computers, that's not a good indication of skill against other human players. CPU's are actually fairly stupid. Their response timing is inhumanly good (hello level 9 perfect-shield fests), but they also have a habit of getting hit by things that any competent human player would predict and punish. Skill killing CPU's is great in the main game, and it certainly does require talent and pattern recognition, but it's not a huge indicator of PvP skill. In fact, I learned some downright bad strategies from my time fighting only CPU's. For Glory requires a lot of new strategies you'll only learn by playing more FG. And if For Glory is really frustrating you, try playing at a different time of day. My experience seems to vary widely depending on when I play. Sometimes I get newbies who accidentally SD all over the place, sometimes I get annoying spammers (projectile and otherwise), but then when I play later at night I get a lot of insanely skilled players.

Or just ask around here for people to play in With Friends. If you're completely vulnerable to projectile spam, you might get a little of that even here (do what wins, right?). But because people here are not used to that working very well, it will probably be less frequent. Just keep at it a while. It can be frustrating to always be the one forced to approach, but if it really bothers you that much, pick a different character that has projectiles or a reflector to respond with. Find a way to have fun!