Discussing 3.5 changes

[KingJames]

Specials
-Up Special(Super Dedede Jump)
--Now has flash overlay at startup to denote Knockback Armor
--Depletes all jumps
--Landing stars enlarged from 3.75 to 4.5
--Landing stars now have 50 BKB instead of 60 BKB
-Down Special(Jet Hammer)
--Vertical positioning on hold animations fixed
-Side Special(Waddle Dee Throw)
--Waddle Dash has increased friction after the toss
--Waddle Toss IASA increased 21 -> 30.

Others
-Airdodge and jumps' stage collision detection adjusted, improving wavelanding ability significantly.
-Ledge jump animations adjusted to fix warping problems
-Screen shakes on aerial landings toned down
-Dash attack
--Now has a color overlay to denote Knockback Armor
--Shakes the screen on faceplant

 

[Kar]

Is his recovery better now ?

 

[L Pag]

So far, he feels pretty much the same. The increased IASA on the waddle throw is definitely noticeable, especially when waddle dashing, but it's nothing major. I feel like it's not the changes that effect Dedede, but the lack of changes. We can still play him the same way as before, except pretty much everyone in the cast is worse. In fact, Dedede really only got better. Recovery nerfs means an easier edge guard, we still have a solid projectile and movement with the waddles, and out grab range is still fantastic. As for matchups, I really can't quite say yet. I've only played a few matchups but from what I can tell, ROB is definitely in our favor (his aerial game was nerfed hard, but his projectiles are still good. I was able to camp him out pretty easily though), Lucas is easier, but I think it may be his advantage, Marth feels the same, Ganon is going to be difficult, but not too bad, and Ivy still beats us pretty handily.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ike loses this one.

I'm glad Dedede's recovery was untouched, he doesn't have floatiness and overt aerial mobility to assist his gimps and he honestly has a fairly linear and easy to block recovery. Overall a great Marth/Jiggs hybrid and fun to play against, even if you guys do cream my main

 

[L Pag]

Ike loses this one.

I'm glad Dedede's recovery was untouched, he doesn't have floatiness and overt aerial mobility to assist his gimps and he honestly has a fairly linear and easy to block recovery. Overall a great Marth/Jiggs hybrid and fun to play against, even if you guys do cream my main

True, but you can mix up his recovery with waddle dashing quite a bit. As for the floatiness, Dedede doesn't really need that because fair covers such a large area, so you don't need to be really precise with it. It can cause problems with bair, but fair is what you will generally be using anyway. Plus if you can't get to their exact position with fair, waddles can usually be angled to hit them and pops them up into a perfect position for follow ups

 

[Smur]

I don't know man, I feel like DDD is actually worse. Recovery nerfs weren't THAT powerful across the board. You can still do what you did in 3.02 to kill offstage.

The increased IASA makes it easier to punish a waddle dash, plus, they decreased the distance (or speed?) of the waddle dash. The change may not seem like a big deal at first, but it actually really limits your options. Recovery mix-ups are way less powerful, b-reversing (either an inhale or a waddle-throw) with the dash momentum is pretty much useless now, and you can't move around with it as fluidly anymore. It's like they wan't DDD to have this campy tank playstlye, but he can be so much more than that ;-;. I don't even know what the PMDT was thinking with the landing star size increase, it really won't make any difference. I can definitely feel the nerfs, but it isn't that big a deal to where I'd have to pick someone else up. I just don't get the reasoning behind these changes to DDD.

@ L Pag
@ Thane of Blue Flames

 

[9bit]

I'm glad Dedede's recovery was untouched,

Oh but it was touched! Naughty touched.

You now lose all your jumps when you up-B. This kills my super amazing hidden technique: save 1 jump, if you get hit out of up-B, use your last jump to do a soft-waddle-toss straight down, waddle dash forward with it and up-B to get that slide animation on the up-B and BOOM. Recovered.

I hope that made sense. Drunkbit.

 

[Ridel]

I don't know man, I feel like DDD is actually worse. Recovery nerfs weren't THAT powerful across the board. You can still do what you did in 3.02 to kill offstage.

The increased IASA makes it easier to punish a waddle dash, plus, they decreased the distance (or speed?) of the waddle dash. The change may not seem like a big deal at first, but it actually really limits your options. Recovery mix-ups are way less powerful, b-reversing (either an inhale or a waddle-throw) with the dash momentum is pretty much useless now, and you can't move around with it as fluidly anymore. It's like they wan't DDD to have this campy tank playstlye, but he can be so much more than that ;-;. I don't even know what the PMDT was thinking with the landing star size increase, it really won't make any difference. I can definitely feel the nerfs, but it isn't that big a deal to where I'd have to pick someone else up. I just don't get the reasoning behind these changes to DDD.

@ L Pag
@ Thane of Blue Flames

It seems like the Waddle Dash distance is only decreased on the ground as it has more "friction", but in the air it seems to go the exact same distance. This with the increased IASA makes it harder for him to approach but not drastically harder where it is impossible. I think this just forces you to be less reckless with your approach and focus more on bait and punish tactics. I must say using the Waddle-Dash as a retreat option is still the best utility for it in my opinion, as it still covers a good distance and has an acting hitbox in front of him.

 

[Key Chain]

It seems like the Waddle Dash distance is only decreased on the ground as it has more "friction", but in the air it seems to go the exact same distance. This with the increased IASA makes it harder for him to approach but not drastically harder where it is impossible. I think this just forces you to be less reckless with your approach and focus more on bait and punish tactics. I must say using the Waddle-Dash as a retreat option is still the best utility for it in my opinion, as it still covers a good distance and has an acting hitbox in front of him.

nah the friction affects the aerial dash as well. other than the weirdness in recovering which may be less noticeable, waddle dashing backwards from near the edge of the stage and off, doesnt send him as far off the stage as before. before I used to do that as an absurdly situational and flashy edgeguard (bair with the backwards glide and still make it back on stage after edgeguarding/gimping) but now the friction prevents us from going too far off the stage and the IASA frames dont allow us to bair quick enough to hit the offstage opponent before they hit us (atleast so far with my limited time with 3.5 but im pretty sure its useless now).

lol sorry if I didnt write it in a way that made sense. if that all came off as gibberish or nonsense i'll be glad to try and rephrase it in a way that makes more sense. just ask.

 

[Ridel]

nah the friction affects the aerial dash as well. other than the weirdness in recovering which may be less noticeable, waddle dashing backwards from near the edge of the stage and off, doesnt send him as far off the stage as before. before I used to do that as an absurdly situational and flashy edgeguard (bair with the backwards glide and still make it back on stage after edgeguarding/gimping) but now the friction prevents us from going too far off the stage and the IASA frames dont allow us to bair quick enough to hit the offstage opponent before they hit us (atleast so far with my limited time with 3.5 but im pretty sure its useless now).

lol sorry if I didnt write it in a way that made sense. if that all came off as gibberish or nonsense i'll be glad to try and rephrase it in a way that makes more sense. just ask.

I get what you are saying and it is only a very flashy way of edge-guarding. From what I have tested a few minutes ago he can still Waddle-Dash into grab on some characters, though the window for doing so is limited in this version. I still hold that the Waddle-Dash should be used creatively but the increased IASA frames are making it quite a chore so I can see why people would be annoyed.

 

[HelloAxi]

Perhaps waddle dash grab was a little too abusive especially to tech chase. I started taking games using mostly that in tournaments.
The iasa i can understand but the friction boost is a little irritating. Penguins should be slippery, right?

 

[Key Chain]

I get what you are saying and it is only a very flashy way of edge-guarding. From what I have tested a few minutes ago he can still Waddle-Dash into grab on some characters, though the window for doing so is limited in this version. I still hold that the Waddle-Dash should be used creatively but the increased IASA frames are making it quite a chore so I can see why people would be annoyed.

Yea waddledash into grab still working was something I was excited to find out still works fine but just like Smur mentioned earlier, the change to the waddle dash removes the b reverse inhale option that IIRC was made popular by Ripple. thats all because of the friction nerf which just proves it applies to the air as well as the ground.

 

[Ridel]

Yea waddledash into grab still working was something I was excited to find out still works fine but just like Smur mentioned earlier, the change to the waddle dash removes the b reverse inhale option that IIRC was made popular by Ripple. thats all because of the friction nerf which just proves it applies to the air as well as the ground.

Yeah that's a bummer but luckily it wasn't to detramental to how he played overall, but it was a good option that is no longer available.