DI in ssb64: how similar is it to melee?

[iAmMatt]

I have pretty good di in melee, and I was wondering if that would carry over into 64. From what I understand, sdi isn't a thing in 64, but is survival di the same as it is in melee?

 

[Saltsizzle]

Only smash DI. No survival DI.

 

[iAmMatt]

Only smash DI. No survival DI.

well, I certainly got that wrong, didn't I?

 

[RPGgrenade]

how it's generally seen is as melee's smash DI (only without c-stick), and there's no survival DI, BUT the thing about 64 is that, unlike in melee, you can Smash DI into the collision of the stage if you're good enough, so that the knockback of whatever hits you is insanely decreased. I don't think it's possible to tech attacks this way though.

 

[Uair]

Di into walls/ledges and once you smack the corner you can di up onto the stage if its sloped and reverse ledge di.

smash64 di > melee di

 

[RPGgrenade]

Di into walls/ledges and once you smack the corner you can di up onto the stage if its sloped and reverse ledge di.

smash64 di > melee di

that last part isn't necessarily true... they have wall tech, ledge tech, and their DI allows them to survive insane hits without having to hit the stage, PLUS if they try hitting the stage, it still works, just not as well... unless they tech. So it might be argued theirs is better because it can escape and allow for survival in way more scenarios.

 

[Uair]

that last part isn't necessarily true... they have wall tech, ledge tech, and their DI allows them to survive insane hits without having to hit the stage, PLUS if they try hitting the stage, it still works, just not as well... unless they tech. So it might be argued theirs is better because it can escape and allow for survival in way more scenarios.

You obviously cannot visually see the hitstun movement of di as much as you can in smash compared to melee. Smash64 DI is much more profound and has a much more impact in game than melee. For melee di most of the time is just to avoid death, in smash64 it's much more complex.

 

[RPGgrenade]

You obviously cannot visually see the hitstun movement of di as much as you can in smash compared to melee. Smash64 DI is much more profound and has a much more impact in game than melee. For melee di most of the time is just to avoid death, in smash64 it's much more complex.

I'd agree if we were talking about Smash 4 or Brawl. But honestly in melee and Project M I see it an insane amount, it'd just much faster. And I'd have to disagree on all counts that has "more impact in game than melee". Because it's used for escaping combos (fox's up-throw up-air is a famous example) all the time just as much as it is in 64, it just can ALSO be used to survive large hits by using both in conjunction (it's called smash DI because it needs the c-stick to give them one frame of movement extra at the end of hitlag, which is normally used for smash attacks, thus smash DI), followed by the DI of hitstun movement at around the same time, finished by the survival DI. Making these claims seems a little narrow minded. As I don't see 64 DI being used for anything besides getting out of combos and surviving, which means it's about the same as in melee. The difference is without ledge tech, and the fact you can collide with the stage to REDUCE knockback and change angle rather than only changing the angle, you have LESS options for survival. I mean honestly, what are you meant to do at 100%+ against a Fox up-smashing you in 64? On dreamland almost nothing but a frame perfect Tech while trying to DI downwards so you tech a platform. So essentially the same as in melee..? Except in melee they have the extra Smash DI frame and the survival DI, which means they can survive much longer. Survival in melee is far more complex, and combo escaping as well (escape mashing grabs is practically non-existant in 64), you can DI out of chain-grabs, use DI make an opponent miss their fancy gimp and SD, etc.
Just because it's more "visual" doesn't make it more profound. And it's not used in any more situations than it is in melee.

 

[Uair]

I'd agree if we were talking about Smash 4 or Brawl. But honestly in melee and Project M I see it an insane amount, it'd just much faster. And I'd have to disagree on all counts that has "more impact in game than melee". Because it's used for escaping combos (fox's up-throw up-air is a famous example) all the time just as much as it is in 64, it just can ALSO be used to survive large hits by using both in conjunction (it's called smash DI because it needs the c-stick to give them one frame of movement extra at the end of hitlag, which is normally used for smash attacks, thus smash DI), followed by the DI of hitstun movement at around the same time, finished by the survival DI. Making these claims seems a little narrow minded. As I don't see 64 DI being used for anything besides getting out of combos and surviving, which means it's about the same as in melee. The difference is without ledge tech, and the fact you can collide with the stage to REDUCE knockback and change angle rather than only changing the angle, you have LESS options for survival. I mean honestly, what are you meant to do at 100%+ against a Fox up-smashing you in 64? On dreamland almost nothing but a frame perfect Tech while trying to DI downwards so you tech a platform. So essentially the same as in melee..? Except in melee they have the extra Smash DI frame and the survival DI, which means they can survive much longer. Survival in melee is far more complex, and combo escaping as well (escape mashing grabs is practically non-existant in 64), you can DI out of chain-grabs, use DI make an opponent miss their fancy gimp and SD, etc.
Just because it's more "visual" doesn't make it more profound. And it's not used in any more situations than it is in melee.

tl;dr smash64 requires DI in order to actually play the game. If you can't not get hit, you have to di or you'll in theory be 0 to death each stock.

Just my professional opinion after playing melee for half a decade and smash64 for more than a decade.

 

[RPGgrenade]

tl;dr smash64 requires DI in order to actually play the game. If you can't not get hit, you have to di or you'll in theory be 0 to death each stock.

Just my professional opinion after playing melee for half a decade and smash64 for more than a decade.

implying that in melee no DI you'll be able to do well at all? I don't follow. The same thing tends to happen in melee, it's just so much easier to vary it up in melee because of that added angle changing, which most noobs can figure out can help by just presses random directions I suppose.

Edit: I think I get what you mean now, you mean it's more USEFUL when you know it compared to melee, right? In that case everything you've said would completely confuse anyone reading.

 

[Uair]

implying that in melee no DI you'll be able to do well at all? I don't follow. The same thing tends to happen in melee, it's just so much easier to vary it up in melee because of that added angle changing, which most noobs can figure out can help by just presses random directions I suppose.

Edit: I think I get what you mean now, you mean it's more USEFUL when you know it compared to melee, right? In that case everything you've said would completely confuse anyone reading.

Nope, I have insane di (tl;dr btw) in melee and it helps me beyond imagination. I use kb for both smash and melee netplay, I just know from experience in both games in smash it's much more useful than melee. Hard to understand? play the game for a few years while getting hit.

 

[Grahamaglam]

Nope, I have insane di (tl;dr btw) in melee and it helps me beyond imagination. I use kb for both smash and melee netplay, I just know from experience in both games in smash it's much more useful than melee. Hard to understand? play the game for a few years while getting hit.

Do you really expect me to read all those WORDS?

 

[Uair]

Do you really expect me to read all those WORDS?

At least its not dwords.

 

[Deleted member]

I have pretty good di in melee, and I was wondering if that would carry over into 64. From what I understand, sdi isn't a thing in 64, but is survival di the same as it is in melee?

Very similar. Also what will carry over is tech skill.

 

[iAmMatt]

Very similar. Also what will carry over is tech skill.

Yeah, I can z cancel pretty easily, it never gave me any trouble. But things such as pivot uptilts as kirby give me trouble.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I can z cancel pretty easily, it never gave me any trouble. But things such as pivot uptilts as kirby give me trouble.

yes, unfortunately, a lot of people struggle with those. lots of practice needed.

 

[RPGgrenade]

Yeah, I can z cancel pretty easily, it never gave me any trouble. But things such as pivot uptilts as kirby give me trouble.

**** man that's just difficult period. I think for me the main difference between getting used to 64 compared to the others is the lack of C-stick control use. It really feels awkward for me because I rely on it so much in the other games. other than that I'm pretty solid throughout.

 

[caneut]

why is this thread still alive?

/thread

 

[iAmMatt]

why is this thread still alive?

/thread

dude idk, I just asked one question