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Dexter uses the Pro Controller at Xanadu

Gidy

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While watching some Xanadu matches last night I noticed that Dexter uses the Pro Controller at Xanadu, a tournament where 100+ people show up. It has been said in the past that other wireless communication devices could interfere with other control options but the gamecube controller, but Dexter continues to use the Pro Controller which leads me to believe that there is little to no latency even with large amounts of wireless devices nearby. Does this confirm its viability for tournaments?

 

Duck SMASH!

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plz say yes...
I'm actually starting to adjust to the gamepad and pro controller cuz of my lack of a GC adapter.. >.>
Specifically ZL for Jump and ZR for shield.
If the GC controller becomes the only option in tourneys simply cuz it's the only wired one, GG T_T
 

Gidy

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plz say yes...
I'm actually starting to adjust to the gamepad and pro controller cuz of my lack of a GC adapter.. >.>
Specifically ZL for Jump and ZR for shield.
If the GC controller becomes the only option in tourneys simply cuz it's the only wired one, GG T_T
I like it better because it feels like a Xbox 360 Controller and the C-Stick is right next to X, which is my jump button.
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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Latency doesn't seem to be an issue with pro controller anymore, at least not at Xanadu (3ds on the other hand... :( ) The bigger issue now though is people leaving their sets with the pro controller still synced up. It keeps the tournaments from going smoothly.
 

X-Ployt

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Latency doesn't seem to be an issue with pro controller anymore, at least not at Xanadu (3ds on the other hand... :( ) The bigger issue now though is people leaving their sets with the pro controller still synced up. It keeps the tournaments from going smoothly.
lol, how do you de-sync the pro controllers? Does the reset button have to be pushed in?
 

Gidy

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Latency doesn't seem to be an issue with pro controller anymore, at least not at Xanadu (3ds on the other hand... :( ) The bigger issue now though is people leaving their sets with the pro controller still synced up. It keeps the tournaments from going smoothly.
What's the problem with them being synced? All they have to do is toggle off the pro controller player.
 
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JSG

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I feel as if TOs aren't banning pro controllers as of late due to the scarcity of adapters these days. Many people I know coming late into the Smash 4 scene are currently sticking too pro controllers simply because that's their only other option left.

And also, if I were sticking to a pro controller, and I know that a tourney/local I'm going to has adapters all around, I'd still stick to the pro controller, rather than bring my own Gamecube controller. even if I've played Melee/Brawl, I wouldn't want to start using a Gamecube controller for the first time at an event like that.
 

cot(θ)

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lol, how do you de-sync the pro controllers? Does the reset button have to be pushed in?
You just push the sync button on the controller.
What's the problem with them being synced? All they have to do is toggle off the pro controller player.
It's a big problem when navigating the menus if someone stuck a pro controller in their pocket and the stick is pressed to the side, or B is pressed down.
 

erico9001

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You just push the sync button on the controller.
It's a big problem when navigating the menus if someone stuck a pro controller in their pocket and the stick is pressed to the side, or B is pressed down.
Pressing the sync button will turn the controller off but not desync it. That would still solve the issue though.
 

Raijinken

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tl;dr, until the science says otherwise, assume wired is better but wireless is valid.

Bluetooth (what the pro controller connects via) can cause perceptible levels of lag if there's enough interference. Unless the same (or similar) is proven of the Gamecube adapter, the safest assumption is that wired is better. One thing that's hard to observe from tournaments like Xanadu is how many other players are using bluetooth (whether phones or controllers), as that's the most likely source of interference. If Dexter's the only one, then naturally he'd have no issues since the interference is negligible. If you imagine a worst-case scenario like all 100+ players using the Pro Controller and then see how that affects interference, you can make a much fairer assessment.

So unless we find that the adapter has some delay for any reason, it's safer to play wired, but unless you're in a large event with poor wireless rule enforcement and a disproportionately large number of Pro controller users, the interference is likely to be negligible.
 

Gidy

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tl;dr, until the science says otherwise, assume wired is better but wireless is valid.

Bluetooth (what the pro controller connects via) can cause perceptible levels of lag if there's enough interference. Unless the same (or similar) is proven of the Gamecube adapter, the safest assumption is that wired is better. One thing that's hard to observe from tournaments like Xanadu is how many other players are using bluetooth (whether phones or controllers), as that's the most likely source of interference. If Dexter's the only one, then naturally he'd have no issues since the interference is negligible. If you imagine a worst-case scenario like all 100+ players using the Pro Controller and then see how that affects interference, you can make a much fairer assessment.

So unless we find that the adapter has some delay for any reason, it's safer to play wired, but unless you're in a large event with poor wireless rule enforcement and a disproportionately large number of Pro controller users, the interference is likely to be negligible.
It's not known if Xanadu players have Bluetooth enabled or not so there is still a chance, no?
 

Raijinken

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It's not known if Xanadu players have Bluetooth enabled or not so there is still a chance, no?
Pretty much. We haven't (or at least, nothing I've seen indicates that we have) verified for sure that the Pro Controller is lagless (or negligibly laggy), nor that the Adapter doesn't slow the signal transfer for some reason (USB has some limits in that regard), or other things like that. So while it's currently fair to assume that the Pro Controller is valid, it's also fair to continue assuming that wired is still better (even if not for reasons of latency, not having to worry about batteries or accidental sync-ups is a plus). But unless we can prove conclusively that the gameplay impact is equivalent for one or another method of control, leaving it to player preference is fair.
 

erico9001

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Pretty much. We haven't (or at least, nothing I've seen indicates that we have) verified for sure that the Pro Controller is lagless (or negligibly laggy), nor that the Adapter doesn't slow the signal transfer for some reason (USB has some limits in that regard), or other things like that. So while it's currently fair to assume that the Pro Controller is valid, it's also fair to continue assuming that wired is still better (even if not for reasons of latency, not having to worry about batteries or accidental sync-ups is a plus). But unless we can prove conclusively that the gameplay impact is equivalent for one or another method of control, leaving it to player preference is fair.
If the adapter may slow the signal, its not fair to assume wired is better. The most fair thing is to assume nothing and wait for test results.
-Battery life is hardly an issue with this controller, since it's 80 hours. Be smart and charge it, even several days beforehand, and there's absolutely no chance of it running out.
-What are the chances of accidentally syncing up to another Wii U? Seriously, even if that did happen, it's not hard to press the red button on the back of it and then press the Wii U's red button for a re-sync.
 

Raijinken

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If the adapter may slow the signal, its not fair to assume wired is better. The most fair thing is to assume nothing and wait for test results.
-Battery life is hardly an issue with this controller, since it's 80 hours. Be smart and charge it, even several days beforehand, and there's absolutely no chance of it running out.
-What are the chances of accidentally syncing up to another Wii U? Seriously, even if that did happen, it's not hard to press the red button on the back of it and then press the Wii U's red button for a re-sync.
Battery life is only a minimal issue, but there is possibility for it to occur. Not that you can't just grab/bring a microUSB to charge with during the tournament, though.
If you're in between rounds and hit a button, you'll sync up to the last U you played on. Pretty likely, and unlike the solution with regular Wiimotes, you can't reasonably just take the battery out between rounds. The odds of it causing an issue are slim, but the chance of it causing a delay is pretty fair, especially in a large crowd.

Since we don't know if the adapter causes a delay or not, it's only fair to assume the controllers function exactly like they always have. And it's very unlikely that even with a delay in the adapter, it would be slower than wireless. Nintendo would have had to royally screw something up to make it go that slowly. But take my view with a grain of salt, I'm extremely pro-wired in any scenario dealing with time-sensitive data transfer.
 

erico9001

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Battery life is only a minimal issue, but there is possibility for it to occur. Not that you can't just grab/bring a microUSB to charge with during the tournament, though.
If you're in between rounds and hit a button, you'll sync up to the last U you played on. Pretty likely, and unlike the solution with regular Wiimotes, you can't reasonably just take the battery out between rounds. The odds of it causing an issue are slim, but the chance of it causing a delay is pretty fair, especially in a large crowd.
You can't just 'hit the button,' because it's indented. Furthermore, it stays synced up to the Wii U it is currently synced up to, so what is the issue?

Anyways, how do you reason that the wired connection is to be faster even though there might be a delay? Wireless signals do technically travel to the system slower, but my understanding is that it travels so fast that that is negligible. What I've read is what really caused the lag with the Wii was the interpreting of the wireless signal. The Wii U is more advanced though, so it probably or possibly interprets that faster. Also, there's apparently a more advanced bluetooth signal? Anyways, I could assume that the wired signal is worse thanks to that usb connection (maybe the wii u has to interpret that), but I won't because I'm fair and unbiased. The same goes the other way. With a lack of knowledge, the fair thing to do is to assume nothing and make no judgement either way until there is information.
 

Raijinken

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You can't just 'hit the button,' because it's indented. Furthermore, it stays synced up to the Wii U it is currently synced up to, so what is the issue?

Anyways, how do you reason that the wired connection is to be faster even though there might be a delay? Wireless signals do technically travel to the system slower, but my understanding is that it travels so fast that that is negligible. What I've read is what really caused the lag with the Wii was the interpreting of the wireless signal. The Wii U is more advanced though, so it probably or possibly interprets that faster. Also, there's apparently a more advanced bluetooth signal? Anyways, I could assume that the wired signal is worse thanks to that usb connection (maybe the wii u has to interpret that), but I won't because I'm fair and unbiased. The same goes the other way. With a lack of knowledge, the fair thing to do is to assume nothing and make no judgement either way until there is information.
We differ in our approach on that regard. I see it as fair to assume the status quo hasn't changed, you see it as fair to assume the status quo is new and equivalent (and admittedly in my case, I've never had much success with widespread bluetooth use in a small area, and thus rather frown upon it when wired options are present). At least a few years ago it was very prone to desyncing and interference, but I'd certainly hope that's been improved in more recent versions). In both cases, since we don't know for sure either way, it'll generally boil down to any given player using what they're most familiar and used to. Even with the general knowledge that on the Wii, using Gamecube controllers was the better choice, there are still people who play with a Wiimote and Nunchuk. If there's a decided "best" further down the line, there's nothing to force players to one or another (unless TOs make rules about that, which I imagine most won't).

And I didn't mean the sync button, I meant any button. If you've had a match (and thus synced to a given system), then pressing any button on the Pro controller will tell it to attempt to wake up and pair back to the system it was synced to. It's easy to do by accident, and especially with how the controller determines the joystick's neutral position on startup, you can cause a lot of screwing around with the menus if something gets pocket-pressed at a bad time. It's an inconvenience, not a deal-breaker, but since most people won't be carrying around small screwdrivers to take out their batteries between rounds, it's a valid if unlikely concern, like wondering if the Gamepad should be legal when only one player per match is physically capable of using it.
 
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erico9001

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We differ in our approach on that regard. I see it as fair to assume the status quo hasn't changed, you see it as fair to assume the status quo is new and equivalent (and admittedly in my case, I've never had much success with widespread bluetooth use in a small area, and thus rather frown upon it when wired options are present). At least a few years ago it was very prone to desyncing and interference, but I'd certainly hope that's been improved in more recent versions). In both cases, since we don't know for sure either way, it'll generally boil down to any given player using what they're most familiar and used to. Even with the general knowledge that on the Wii, using Gamecube controllers was the better choice, there are still people who play with a Wiimote and Nunchuk. If there's a decided "best" further down the line, there's nothing to force players to one or another (unless TOs make rules about that, which I imagine most won't).

And I didn't mean the sync button, I meant any button. If you've had a match (and thus synced to a given system), then pressing any button on the Pro controller will tell it to attempt to wake up and pair back to the system it was synced to. It's easy to do by accident, and especially with how the controller determines the joystick's neutral position on startup, you can cause a lot of screwing around with the menus if something gets pocket-pressed at a bad time. It's an inconvenience, not a deal-breaker, but since most people won't be carrying around small screwdrivers to take out their batteries between rounds, it's a valid if unlikely concern, like wondering if the Gamepad should be legal when only one player per match is physically capable of using it.
Oh, I see. You can just turn the controller off by pressing the sync button in that case. It acts as if the controller has been turned off (no signals are sent to the wii U) even though the lights keep blinking for a little while. Once the lights stop it turns off. Another alternative is a paper clip or mechanical pencil's lead to poke into that little hole, but the red button is definitely most convenient.
 
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JipC

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I can't use Gamecube controller, I keep L-cancelling out of muscle memory withit whereas I dont use a Pro Controller for Melee/PM so I dont have that problem
 

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I used the cool little Hori "Fightpad" Gamecube controllers that's basically a classic controller shaped as...a GameCube controller. it hooks up to the wii remote like a nun chunk and all. I never actually been to a life tournament, so Im clueless whether it's acceptable to bring it :/
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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I used the cool little Hori "Fightpad" Gamecube controllers that's basically a classic controller shaped as...a GameCube controller. it hooks up to the wii remote like a nun chunk and all. I never actually been to a life tournament, so Im clueless whether it's acceptable to bring it :/
The TO Tantalus actually brought the Hori and PDP fight pads for people to borrow one week and I've seen them there before :) Bring it dude - I'm all for controller diversity. Like I said I've been able to hold my own even with a 2DS as long as the lag isn't bad, which seems to vary from match to match no matter what controller you use (even gamecube at times apparently).
 

Signia

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While we're on about alternative controllers, would something like this be allowed?

http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/1/AGS/AGS-large/quasicon.htm



The little sticks are analog, unlike the usual sticks, so you can walk and tilt and stuff. They're expensive but I honestly can't stand GC controllers and have always loved the feel of arcade sticks, which cause way less hand strain and allow you to comfortably utilize your fingers and not just your thumb. I've never tried it, but if that large stick is anything like the common American arcade "bat," which is very stiff, sturdy and quick-correcting, it'd definitely be nice to use for all the stick flicking needed for foxtrots, pivots, and dash dancing.
 
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