Defensive Options Against Marth

[TimeMuffinPhD]

So I've really been wanting to improve my game vs Marth recently (been playing quite a few of them). I feel my punish game is pretty decent at the moment, but I think my defensive game is extremely lacking. Particularly in the way to react to certain moves he makes and DI. Maybe I could get some tips on how to get out of Marth's common setups and combos? I feel like I'm extending the combo by not DI'ing correctly, I don't really get enough friendlies with Marth's to try things for myself. I'd also like to note that this is PAL.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

If Marth jumps at you, shield is pretty much safe. He might try to tomahawk you, but if he gets close enough to you or the ground, you should anticipate this and avoid it. All but the lowest aerials will be very, very unsafe on shield. CC beats a lot of non-tipper moves until higher percents. Ideally, you should focus on DDing vs ground game, the biggest thing to look out for and avoid being him dtilting your dash back. Getting close in his face or moving past him tends to work well and can cause him to royzone, as can close jabs. Something else to remember, Marth has poor active frames on most moves, so you can spotdodge most attacks and punish, just beware of Marth waiting or DDing instead of attacking.

Once he gets a grab, you can actually just die. You can try to DI to make the followup ambiguous and mix it up each time, and at around 20 percent if you do no DI you can force Marth to pivot. Once you get towards utilt percents, DI far out then try to SDI into Marth and DI as much as possible for the utilt hit that sends you behind to make the followup as hard as possible. When Marth goes for uair to setup a tipper, try to SDI either up, or away and possibly downward (preferably the latter). If away, DI in anticipation of a tipper finish, this DI makes it harder to continue the combo. Be ready to tech, not towards Marth if he's not going to hit you. SDI up should be for much higher percentages and when you're already displaced horizontally.

DI tipper fairs out unless it will kill you or put you farther offstage horizontally than vertically, and treat non-tipper fairs more like standard combo moves. When it isn't going to cause death, especially if it won't cause knockdown, DI down and away. Do survival DI when it's sending you far enough for this to KO. Obviously this is simplified, but it's easier to avoid followups from tipper fair the higher you are relative to Marth, and things can vary based on Marth's motion as he's hitting you.

DI fthrow at 0 down and away, buffer spotdodge or roll if he goes for immediate regrab. Otherwise, you can try dashing towards him dashing towards, or jabbing.

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

If Marth jumps at you, shield is pretty much safe. He might try to tomahawk you, but if he gets close enough to you or the ground, you should anticipate this and avoid it. All but the lowest aerials will be very, very unsafe on shield. CC beats a lot of non-tipper moves until higher percents. Ideally, you should focus on DDing vs ground game, the biggest thing to look out for and avoid being him dtilting your dash back. Getting close in his face or moving past him tends to work well and can cause him to royzone, as can close jabs. Something else to remember, Marth has poor active frames on most moves, so you can spotdodge most attacks and punish, just beware of Marth waiting or DDing instead of attacking.

Once he gets a grab, you can actually just die. You can try to DI to make the followup ambiguous and mix it up each time, and at around 20 percent if you do no DI you can force Marth to pivot. Once you get towards utilt percents, DI far out then try to SDI into Marth and DI as much as possible for the utilt hit that sends you behind to make the followup as hard as possible. When Marth goes for uair to setup a tipper, try to SDI either up, or away and possibly downward (preferably the latter). If away, DI in anticipation of a tipper finish, this DI makes it harder to continue the combo. Be ready to tech, not towards Marth if he's not going to hit you. SDI up should be for much higher percentages and when you're already displaced horizontally.

DI tipper fairs out unless it will kill you or put you farther offstage horizontally than vertically, and treat non-tipper fairs more like standard combo moves. When it isn't going to cause death, especially if it won't cause knockdown, DI down and away. Do survival DI when it's sending you far enough for this to KO. Obviously this is simplified, but it's easier to avoid followups from tipper fair the higher you are relative to Marth, and things can vary based on Marth's motion as he's hitting you.

DI fthrow at 0 down and away, buffer spotdodge or roll if he goes for immediate regrab. Otherwise, you can try dashing towards him dashing towards, or jabbing.

Thanks this is some really good info. Another question though, what should I be doing against Marth's d-tilt in the neutral?

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Try to keep yourself at a position where it doesn't hit with the tip and punish OoS with something that doesn't require wavedash and hopefully isn't an aerial, or read the dtilt incoming an jump over it. Try to get in on Marth if at points where it seems like he'd want to do it so that he can't use the range or tip, and if possible, see if you can get outside the range then come back in (this is one of the harder moves to do this against in neutral).

While dtilt might put you into bad positions and get some percent on you, it usually shouldn't lead into a guaranteed followup, so you have some wiggleroom to get comfortable vs. it. If he lands a tipper dtilt on shield and you buffer a roll away, the window to punish ranges from incredibly tight to not even there, and WD OoS while not giving up too much stage position (but not going towards him) is pretty safe for resetting the situation.

You can try to move forward and either poke at Marth or do something quick to prevent WD forward dtilt, or stop run->dtilt before it can come out. This last one doesn't work the same way vs. pivot->dtilt or walk->dtilt. Any other form and you can just kind of deny Marth the room to dtilt, and Marth approaching with dtilt should be the only one you really worry about as long as stage position isn't severly limiting your options and strengthening Marth's (e.g. you're cornered and very close to the ledge and Marth's anywhere from tipper dtilt range to tipper fsmash range).



Something I forgot to mention: Since you're going to be playing this MU primarily not on FD presumably, get comfortable with moving on platforms and defending yourself on them. It helps a lot. Also, DIing so that Marth has to move a certain way to cover different platform techs, or recognizing which way he's going or positoned to tech in the positions and directions he can't reach can help, as can DIing to the ledge of the platform with no tech or tech in place.