Defender's options after attacker's cross-up?

[Halifax?]

Here to discuss some glaring holes in my gameplay. A Lucas completely exposed me today (if you read this I'm sorry how salty I got LOL.) My main problems were 1) being crossed up, 2) SH PK Fire, and 3) conditioning. Mainly here for cross-ups though.

Anyways, my opponent would use Lucas's nair and its multi-hits to drift behind my shield. I wish I could go back and play the same guy more so I could lab it out. If any character crosses you up with AC / lagless aerials what options are strongest? Looking at OoS, idk if I'd choose an offensive or defensive option. Watching top players when they get crossed-up, I rarely see up-B OoS. More like roll, spotdodge, or maybe jump and retreating aerial. JC OoS moves just seem like a huge gamble to me, mostly laggy options.

"Well which character did you use?" ...he killed me on like 20 different characters so any character advice would be nice.

 

[Zonderion]

I have the same problem. I typically choose a defensive option because an offensive option, if I choose wrong, I get punished.

I would much prefer an offensive option to condition them to not cross up my shield. It's mainly the aerials that autocancel and allows them to act immediately...

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

It depends on your character. If you have a fast up-B OoS, you can reverse up-B OoS to punish cross-ups (make sure to know your frame timing and know it's actually a punish; if they have time to block they almost certainly will but a quick up-B like Mario's can very much work here). Also consider if you have a fast nair or bair OoS (do a SH first obviously); a lot of characters have good options here. My topic about OoS options should be very useful to check your particular character's frame data on these moves: http://smashboards.com/threads/out-of-shield-frame-data-chart.419330/ . If you have neither of those as options, you just have to rely on shield drop, turn around, punish (unless your dsmash or one of your specials hits behind you quickly, but those are rare and don't really save time just help your execution). Be sure not to accidentally buffer a roll out of your shield drop; it's really easy to do on accident.

While you should be versed in your very character specific options here, consider what led you into this situation. Generally to do a cross-up aerial the opponent has to cross right in front of you and move past you while hitting. Challenge them! Most usmashes are really good at anti-airing that stuff, and you can hit them before they even make contact with your shield this way. I know with Rosalina my options to punish after someone hits the back of my shield are pretty poor, but my frame 8 massive hitbox and massively invincible usmash does a lot of work for me in making sure they never even get in position for that.

Lastly, even if you do block, remember that you don't have to do anything instantly. Getting your shield hit does not force you into instant action, and if you have a long term read, it can really set you up for success. For instance, many players after hitting your shield in such a hard to punish way will like to go instantly for grab. If you just spotdodge, it sets you up VERY well for a punish on the grab whiff. More conservative players will shield here expecting you to go for a punish that is sure to be too slow; you can just drop shield, turn around, and grab them for that. If they're so meta they spotdodge predicting that, turn around charge fsmash for a huge punish (of course, you have to be doubly meta to read their read and punish it). What I'm really trying to say is remember that this situation is an advantaged pressure situation for them, but they can only convert it into actual material advantage with a further read. If you are making better reads than they are, you can reverse the situation by reading their follow-up, and if they go for no follow-up at all (like they roll away after the pressure), then you can just seize space and not worry about the cross-ups. For that matter, do remember if they have center stage and cross you up, you now have center stage. If you play for space and not just for hits, this will really inform how you appraise these situations.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Well..... since you got smacked with about 20 characters, I'd say first we need to condense down your list of characters you play.
Switching that many times is only going to hold you back in the end.

Since Ampharos explained it a thousand times better than I can... I'll dig a bit and talk about neutral.
What exactly is your thought process in the neutral? Do you space your opponent out and try to catch them doing something unsafe, or would you rather overwhelm them with strong approach options and be aggressive?

 

[Zonderion]

Well..... since you got smacked with about 20 characters, I'd say first we need to condense down your list of characters you play.
Switching that many times is only going to hold you back in the end.

Since Ampharos explained it a thousand times better than I can... I'll dig a bit and talk about neutral.
What exactly is your thought process in the neutral? Do you space your opponent out and try to catch them doing something unsafe, or would you rather overwhelm them with strong approach options and be aggressive?

I play Rosalina. So I try and control the neutral, space and punish. Occasionally I will mix it up and go on the offensive, but it's not often. I struggle with the overly aggressive players who rarely do anything unsafe.