Dedede VS Lucas? How to tackle the MU?

[Crenando]

As a Dedede main, I naturally have a lot of trouble with this MU. Gordos are only useful for ledge-trapping and close quarter reads, I get combo'd to hell, I can't really effectively get in, etc...

Recently, my Lucas-playing friend has started catching up to me. He just acquired a pretty decent amount of complex tech-based combos involving chaining RAR -> wavebounce down-B (yes, that tiny hitbox) -> uptilt -> bair spike -> aerial follow up. This kind of stuff is completely useless for Dedede, so I can't exactly follow his footsteps. I've always been the better player and likely still am by a decent margin considering how bad Dedede is in comparison to Lucas, but am afraid that when he perfects this stuff I'll fall behind. What can I do (if anything) to counter this? I read all his setups but they're so flawless and well spaced that it doesn't help. I find this MU to be about as difficult as Pikachu.

 

[Crenando]

Bump.......

 

[williamsga555]

From what little Lucas experience I have, all I can really say with certainty is work on power shielding and abuse our disjoints every possible moment.

Lucas LOVES to space people out with pk fire and zair, and Dedede has no good answer for either. Just have to play patient.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't fret too much about the matchup. He gets to wall us out and combo us for days but Lucas basically has no kill move on Dedede except for f smash (due to it's surprising quickness). We're really hard for him to edgeguard and we do pretty alright in advantage against him. Just work on perfecting your spacing options (f tilt, ac bair, jab) and Lucas will have a much harder time getting through to you.

And another big mental thing is just brace for the long combos to happen. Dedede is combo food: it's well known he has a bad disadvantage state, so don't let it get to you.

 

[Crenando]

From what little Lucas experience I have, all I can really say with certainty is work on power shielding and abuse our disjoints every possible moment.

Lucas LOVES to space people out with pk fire and zair, and Dedede has no good answer for either. Just have to play patient.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't fret too much about the matchup. He gets to wall us out and combo us for days but Lucas basically has no kill move on Dedede except for f smash (due to it's surprising quickness). We're really hard for him to edgeguard and we do pretty alright in advantage against him. Just work on perfecting your spacing options (f tilt, ac bair, jab) and Lucas will have a much harder time getting through to you.

And another big mental thing is just brace for the long combos to happen. Dedede is combo food: it's well known he has a bad disadvantage state, so don't let it get to you.

I have perfect/power shielding down to a science at this point. Also, my friend is an uncannily good edge guarder. He consistently and purposely will hit me with the non-spike bair combo'd into a spiking bair at the ledge. I find that recovering low helps.

Also, am I the only one who noticed that Lucas' PK Fire has a strange amount of priority? It beats out Yoshi's sweet spot fair as well as Ganon's ftilt.

 

[meleebrawler]

I have perfect/power shielding down to a science at this point. Also, my friend is an uncannily good edge guarder. He consistently and purposely will hit me with the non-spike bair combo'd into a spiking bair at the ledge. I find that recovering low helps.

Also, am I the only one who noticed that Lucas' PK Fire has a strange amount of priority? It beats out Yoshi's sweet spot fair as well as Ganon's ftilt.

Lucas PK Fire has a hurtbox, so it doesn't really follow the rules of priority.

 

[Crenando]

Lucas PK Fire has a hurtbox, so it doesn't really follow the rules of priority.

What do you mean by that? Like, the projectile itself can be damaged? Also, I know its not transcendent, so how does this make it behave in comparison to other high-priority moves (like Ryu's side-B)?

 

[meleebrawler]

What do you mean by that? Like, the projectile itself can be damaged? Also, I know its not transcendent, so how does this make it behave in comparison to other high-priority moves (like Ryu's side-B)?

It explodes upon contact with anything that isn't a solid object like a wall or a shield. Anyone that tries to swat it receives a burst of fire in their face.

Because most projectiles are made to stop upon impacting a hurtbox, PK Fire can stop even the strongest of projectiles with this loophole (though piercing customs might). It's the same reason Duck Hunt's projectiles and Pikmin work so well for stopping other projectiles.

 

[Crenando]

It explodes upon contact with anything that isn't a solid object like a wall or a shield. Anyone that tries to swat it receives a burst of fire in their face.

Because most projectiles are made to stop upon impacting a hurtbox, PK Fire can stop even the strongest of projectiles with this loophole (though piercing customs might). It's the same reason Duck Hunt's projectiles and Pikmin work so well for stopping other projectiles.

Interesting. I noticed that some multi-hit moves can stop it (Dedede's jab's spinning phase, namely) will stop the projectile but still trigger the flame animation. Thanks for the info.

 

[Cook]

http://youtu.be/M0Anxbp3qf0

Here is a video of me against Lucas in game 3. I played kinda bad, but maybe there's something in there to learn?

 

[SoopaDerpcat]

It's a pretty hard matchup, but I think I might have a few pieces of advice:

- When he uses PK Freeze or PK Thunder from the ground, launch a smash gordo (input your side special as if you were inputting a smash attack but with B instead of A) to try and hit him before he regains control.

- Shield his aerials. If he lands in front of you, do a jab combo. If he lands behind you, do a down smash.

- Whenever you're in the air, fast-fall with Nair and hope you can either avoid or outprioritize him. Do NOT try to float away. He'll land and get underneath you before you can land, and probably punish you with his utterly ridiculous up smash (more like up FINAL smash, amirite?) that has super armor, a massive radius, a lingering hitbox, and way too much power.

 

[Crenando]

http://youtu.be/M0Anxbp3qf0

Here is a video of me against Lucas in game 3. I played kinda bad, but maybe there's something in there to learn?

I find it pretty easy to take care of Lucas' recovery with a BAir. Seen Big D do it a few times.

 

[Crenando]

It's a pretty hard matchup, but I think I might have a few pieces of advice:

- When he uses PK Freeze or PK Thunder from the ground, launch a smash gordo (input your side special as if you were inputting a smash attack but with B instead of A) to try and hit him before he regains control.

- Shield his aerials. If he lands in front of you, do a jab combo. If he lands behind you, do a down smash.

- Whenever you're in the air, fast-fall with Nair and hope you can either avoid or outprioritize him. Do NOT try to float away. He'll land and get underneath you before you can land, and probably punish you with his utterly ridiculous up smash (more like up FINAL smash, amirite?) that has super armor, a massive radius, a lingering hitbox, and way too much power.

Smash Gordo? That's a thing?

 

[Cook]

I find it pretty easy to take care of Lucas' recovery with a BAir. Seen Big D do it a few times.

I really haven't played Lucas much in this game, but imo Lucas is harder than Ness to hit outta pk thunder in Brawl because he cam hot himself with it faster than Ness. Pretty quickly, really. Pretty sure that's also true in this game. And bair is slow.

 

[Crenando]

I really haven't played Lucas much in this game, but imo Lucas is harder than Ness to hit outta pk thunder in Brawl because he cam hot himself with it faster than Ness. Pretty quickly, really. Pretty sure that's also true in this game. And bair is slow.

I'm talking after PK Thunder 2 begins, though. Dedede's hammer is out so long that all you need to do is swing.

 

[SoopaDerpcat]

Smash Gordo? That's a thing?

Yeah. This video by Hammerspace covers all of the different types of gordo throws (along with more or less everything else any Dedede main needs to know)

 

[Crenando]

Yeah. This video by Hammerspace covers all of the different types of gordo throws (along with more or less everything else any Dedede main needs to know)

They didn't cover the "Smash Gordo" in that video :/.

 

[Dark Phazon]

What are the patch changes for D3?

 

[SoopaDerpcat]

I don't remember if it was specifically called a smash gordo or not, but there's a normal gordo, a slow gordo, a high-bouncing gordo, and a fast gordo.

Keep in mind that I'm saying it's imputed like a smash attack. It can't be charged like a smash attack, in case that's what's confusing you.

 

[Crenando]

What are the patch changes for D3?

His neutral-B was nerfed so slightly that it may as well not have been changed at all. That's it.

 

[Crenando]

I don't remember if it was specifically called a smash gordo or not, but there's a normal gordo, a slow gordo, a high-bouncing gordo, and a fast gordo.

Keep in mind that I'm saying it's imputed like a smash attack. It can't be charged like a smash attack, in case that's what's confusing you.

No, I know. I'm pretty sure a "Smash Gordo" doesn't exist, though.

 

[CaptainVul]

thats the first I ever heard of a Smash gordo as well lol