Dealing with well PK Fire and Fireball spam?

[DarkShadowRage]

Okay first off I was never really into the compeitive scene in Melee...Never really had anyone to play against as all my other friends did take to smash much.
Now with Brawl I can really play against others.

I've been a Link user since the N64 days
Now ZSS has since stolen his spotlight as of brawls release..
I know some terms and such, but I think i'm pretty good with her and always trying to improve...but my other friend's ganondorf always destroys me...because he well pretty much watched videos of EVERY characters moves so he knows pretty much all about them and what their strengths and weaknesses are... I haven't done this because I didn't care to while the japanese release was out, so brawl is a clean slate for me.

I have yet to beat him online yet..but Improve like every time..I train with my other friends online in infinate time matches just for sparring and such....

What I really want to get around is..like say mario users

They use the fireballs alot I assume this is spacing correct? since it stops my approch and advancement...
Sometimes I like to have them rush me, so I can take advantage of their mistake if the try to.

I try to play tactitcal I love ZSS and I am trying my absolute hardest..to become really good with her..there isn't that many ZSS users out there..and I'm glad to be one of the people who use her, I have won a fair share of battles online but I always want to get better....

But getting gimped always pisses me off..sometimes I can't turn around fast enough or react or they would dodge everyone of my moves even when I try to do something well new..
ah well I guess it's the learnin experince... right?

But yeah..sometimes I can down B over it but it'd screw me over...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccquIln-Upo
This match is when I was fighting my other friend who used lucas..I made it to the end in this FFA..though I have alot of room for improvement..Lucas' PK Fire Spam is well kinda like mario's fireball spam it puts me at a stump...

If you guys can help me out...Please tell me how I can improve....

Some technical terms I understand but I don't know them all...
So if I don't know what they mean i'll ask..

Keep in mind my friend WNx was just using DK for teh lulz

Thanks!

Also in that match I had two accidental suicides...i was a bit reckless too...so it kinda messed me up >.<

still trying to control that

Also...a training partner would be really cool I mean I train with my friends online..but training with another ZSS would be cool too..MSN would be the best way to keep in touch though while we do that seeing on how I can improve and what I need to work on.

 

[DeliciousCake]

One thing is, unless you have so little lag in Wi-fi that the move delay is negligible, don't use it is a basis for how good/bad you might think you are. There's a big difference in the way you'll play against someone in person on the same Wii.

I watched the vid, but I skipped up to the point where it was just you and Lucas, mainly because you wouldn't be playing FFA in a tournament. First off, don't taunt unless you know they cant touch you. You seemed to use your D-smash randomly, if you want to explain why you were doing it. Also, aerial combos are ZSS's greatest way to rack up damage. I noticed that you would throw the Lucas and roll around on the ground trying to predict where he would fall. Get up there and hit that little *******! When you know that someone is going to spam a move, you have to approach them and shut them down, because they aren't going to stop spamming if they know you aren't going to get close.

If you want to check out some other ZSS players:

myRoboticClaw - this guy is awesome, I can't say much else
DeliciousCake (hey that's me!) - I've been told that while my ZSS isn't all that amazing, I manage to play a fairly safe game with her
Cynan - Cynan also plays a good ZSS and is currently in the Smash Wars Online tournament.

I would post more players but I don't know their YouTube channels -_-;

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Ah yeah, thanks for that. In a real serious one on one I wouldn't taunt like that though so that was a real big fault of mine XD.

I was just so..well tense and such but thank you for your kind comments

 

[WhiteWingDemon]

I have used a couple of moves that I have found as an effective counter-measure, although they haven't been thoroughly test on human opponents. The one I rely most heavily on is her D-special with the F-kick attached. Even though it does have good priority, it is still a bit risky of a move. You can dash forward jump, and quickly user her D-air (Though it doesn't seem to have good priority :/)(This move benefits from C-sticking).

With that being said, I would be happy to be your training partner. Unfortunately, I don't have msn.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Well i just got through playing with this other ZSS Player, he was kinda spamy with side B like I used to be..but we where talking and I have showed him some of the stuff that works and things. We just did a match after the training on the castle siege I won this one however, he did beat me alot in the others because of how quick he acted but he was slow in reacting.. I shall be uploading this video soon.

Also in this fight i'm not as quick in it as if I was on say Final Destination, if I am on Castle Siege, I'm alot slower... much slower haha..
also cake I added you to my Friends list >.> on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6VDvloJgkY

^ >_> *hides*

 

[WhiteWingDemon]

A good match, I'd say. You seem to be getting the hang of her aerials. Although, it wouldn't hurt to try and utilize her U-air (Jump -> U-air -> Second Jump -> U-air) to K.O. opponents at medium percentage.

Even though this isn't the place to do this, I'll be on in about five minutes and am fairly interested in a match (No items, any stock/level)

 

[DarkShadowRage]

A good match, I'd say. You seem to be getting the hang of her aerials. Although, it wouldn't hurt to try and utilize her U-air (Jump -> U-air -> Second Jump -> U-air) to K.O. opponents at medium percentage.

Even though this isn't the place to do this, I'll be on in about five minutes and am fairly interested in a match (No items, any stock/level)

I just got through getting my *** beat badly, by my friend who uses ganondorf..he also uses wario AND mario..and he can DODGE EVERY thing I do...it's really annoying...

oh and I added you

 

[DarkShadowRage]

That was a good battle..minus the lag spikes that came out of no where....

I'd love to fight again sometime >.>

 

[WhiteWingDemon]

Yeah the lags spikes were really odd, especially since they almost appeared when we reached the island. >> <<

Another match sometime would be great. I think we were pretty evenley matched so it will be fun to see how we progress over time.

 

[Cynan Machae]

Oh, my YT channel linked.

I watched both your videos, but I'll mainly comment on the second one since there's more than 1 stock of 1on1

So yea, first I'd say that you (and the other ZSS also) both use a bit too much the smashes (mainly F-smash). U-smash is pretty good, but I'd keep F-smash when you are pretty sure to hit an Down-smash is very situational. You could incopore more tilts into your play, especially the down tilt that really helps to set up for aerial play. Talking of aerials, that part was better, but don'T be scared to really work on that part of ZSS's play, because it's IMO her best and it's a very efficient way to build up damage and even kill with the Bair and Uair. You both used a lot of Dair that led you to be punished tho. I sometimes use it to finish an aerial combo, but in itself it's very easy to punish. But heh, I used it quite a bit more than I should toward the beginning.

So yea, that's it for now Good luck!

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Well I fight better on FD, but thank you very much for the input!

 

[k4polo]

PK fire and fireball spam. You could spot dodge.(Dodge down) to avoid. You could fire a stun shot to cancel or go over it. Maybe crawling in certain situations. another good tactic is to just short hop and do a landing side B. I think this is most effective solution.

 

[Kietharr]

One thing I notice: You keep trying to do triple dsmash stuns, that won't work. Do D-D-Side for best effect in that combo. It's one of her best against opponents you can't get into the air. As far as PK fire, your stunner destroys most projectiles and is your first line of defense against projectile spammers.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I would offer to play 1v1 ZSS matches with people, but, I refuse to play online.

 

[Maikeru17]

You have to play a safe game with Zamus.
Spacing is important (as with all characters).

Also, keep in mind that Brawl is all about having a safe approach and punishing bad approaches. Again, play it safe. Zamus' over-B works as quite the spacing tool, from what I've learned playing her.
Also, as DeliciousCake said, aerial combos are the best way to go. Not only can her up-air usually hit twice and even four times depending on their percent and what you do to get them in the air, but it can also kill from the air at relatively low percents. Back-air can also kill at low percents, and I've gotten some double-bair combos off at lower percents.
For recovery, try to save your second jump for when you get close to the stage - Zamus is really floaty, and will tend to make it close enough to the stage to tether without the use of that jump anyway. And, never panic if you're below the stage and they're edgehogging you, 8/10 times they'll get up thinking you're dead, then you'll use your saved second jump and then upB. :D That, and panicking is just bad.

Also, keeping the enemy directly above you (since Zamus is all vertical, ;D If you know what I mean) is a good way to go.

So, what've we learned?
-Space yourself, play a safe game
-Use her aerials more
-Above you is better than below
-Save second jump when recovering until it's absolutely needed, and do not panic when below the stage.


If you ever want to see my Zamus in action (I don't have videos because I have no recording equipment as of yet), feel free to PM me for my brawl code. I'm on the east coast, and I can play pretty laglessly with people in Texas.
<3

-Nox`

**Edit: And after realizing that I did not aid you by critiquing your video/your zamus, I feel the need to apologize. :[ I rarely make "off topic" posts.**

For any sort of projectile being spammed, just learn the trajectory, and think around it, and space yourself using their projectile and your knowledge of their character.
<3

 

[DarkShadowRage]

One thing I notice: You keep trying to do triple dsmash stuns, that won't work. Do D-D-Side for best effect in that combo. It's one of her best against opponents you can't get into the air. As far as PK fire, your stunner destroys most projectiles and is your first line of defense against projectile spammers.

Yeah sometimes I try to hit them as much as I can but the third stun always sends them flying trying to cut it down to two.

I would offer to play 1v1 ZSS matches with people, but, I refuse to play online.

**** i'd love to play you too.. =/

You have to play a safe game with Zamus.
Spacing is important (as with all characters).

Also, keep in mind that Brawl is all about having a safe approach and punishing bad approaches. Again, play it safe. Zamus' over-B works as quite the spacing tool, from what I've learned playing her.
Also, as DeliciousCake said, aerial combos are the best way to go. Not only can her up-air usually hit twice and even four times depending on their percent and what you do to get them in the air, but it can also kill from the air at relatively low percents. Back-air can also kill at low percents, and I've gotten some double-bair combos off at lower percents.
For recovery, try to save your second jump for when you get close to the stage - Zamus is really floaty, and will tend to make it close enough to the stage to tether without the use of that jump anyway. And, never panic if you're below the stage and they're edgehogging you, 8/10 times they'll get up thinking you're dead, then you'll use your saved second jump and then upB. :D That, and panicking is just bad.

Also, keeping the enemy directly above you (since Zamus is all vertical, ;D If you know what I mean) is a good way to go.

So, what've we learned?
-Space yourself, play a safe game
-Use her aerials more
-Above you is better than below
-Save second jump when recovering until it's absolutely needed, and do not panic when below the stage.


If you ever want to see my Zamus in action (I don't have videos because I have no recording equipment as of yet), feel free to PM me for my brawl code. I'm on the east coast, and I can play pretty laglessly with people in Texas.
<3

-Nox`

**Edit: And after realizing that I did not aid you by critiquing your video/your zamus, I feel the need to apologize. :[ I rarely make "off topic" posts.**

For any sort of projectile being spammed, just learn the trajectory, and think around it, and space yourself using their projectile and your knowledge of their character.
<3

Thanks for the helpful information!

Sure i'd love to play you, I want to learn and become much better..

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I just watched one of claws videos. WOW he is amazing..I love how he starts with the suit peices..I need to do that..

I also have trouble against characters like wario...all of his smashes always counter anything i do when I land...he's like an aerial beast pun intended o-o

I can't seem to get around those because they always juggle me, and it's annoying..
And that BIKE! How can I get him off that bike? sometimes i side step passed it..but he will CONSNTANTLY keep riding back and forth untill i'm knocked off...and not to mention the person who plays wario...can dodge every single one of my attacks(the same guy who plays ganondorf) I have no Idea how to get around this...i'm a punching bag to him in other words untill i figure out how to get around this he will spot dodge EVERY single attack I throw at him..really irritating..