Dealing with Projectiles

[Pluck!]

(IMO) The King's biggest issue in Sm4sh is dealing with projectiles, which is especially troublesome given that most of the cast has access to ranged attacks.

I wanted to start a thread where we can discuss different tactics that can be used to avoid or cancel projectiles without putting the King in too much danger. (Honestly, I can't stand to see the King get pelted for several minutes straight.)

Please share your tactics and other information such as attacks we can use to negate projectiles.

Thank you!

 

[Ludiloco]

I have a good strategy

Cry

 

[slavoslav]

you can inhale them for comedic value i guess

 

[Putuk]

Sometimes jumping over a projectile and lobbing a well-angled Gordo at the opponent works. Inhaling them is humorous and sometimes people don't expect it (for example, you're in the air, falling down, Lucario has a charged Aura Sphere, he'll expect that he can hit you hard with it, but not that you'll eat it).
Super Dedede Jump might also be useful, but I havn't messed around with that one that much yet (I thrist for the moment where I use it to spike someone into the pit).

 

[Ludiloco]

All kidding aside, keep to the air. drop down at about the range where you can hit them with your f-tilt and force them to make a decision. You can drop down on them with an up-tilted Gordo or inhale. Against less experienced players, you can drop down on them and nair + up-tilt.

All you can do against projectile spam is make them think (instead of mindlessly throwing crap at you), and making them think gives you a chance. I've beaten some decent Samuses just by forcing their neutral game and exploiting bad habits in it.

If you come across a Samus/DHD that is really solid in their neutral game as well as their spacing, good luck. You're going to need it, or a solid counterpick.

 

[Putuk]

Just to clarify; we're all talking about the Links and Samus, right?

 

[atomicblast360]

Stay in the air, Power Shield, and Juggle. Links/Samus's, and other characters like Duck Hunt, can be very difficult, but they can be beaten.

 

[Octagon]

When i face really good Dededes and i'm Duck Hunt, they use the hammer to destory my clay pigeons, gunmen, and use the hammer to stop the can. Bad Dededes just rack up damage with the projectiles until i just smash them. A good Dedede is freaking scary

 

[Pluck!]

When i face really good Dededes and i'm Duck Hunt, they use the hammer to destory my clay pigeons, gunmen, and use the hammer to stop the can. Bad Dededes just rack up damage with the projectiles until i just smash them. A good Dedede is freaking scary

Thanks for the DH perspective. That's really good information to know which moves D3 can use to smack down projectiles rather than floating for infinity or death.

 

[Octagon]

Thanks for the DH perspective. That's really good information to know which moves D3 can use to smack down projectiles rather than floating for infinity or death.

Np, Duck Hunt isn't as common as other characters but its still good to have knowledge of the matchup

 

[AlextheTwin]

Like others said, I try to stay in the air. I think that's my best shot. Throw gordos from the air at good angles. Close space, try and drop down beside them and try and force a close quarters fight.

But yeah like others said, against really good campers you're really in a bad spot. You can only do so much, at the end of the day no matter how well you play DDD is very weak against campers. I don't believe there's any strategy that will give you the advantage in a matchup against a good samus, duck hunt, megaman, link or villager who knows how to exploit DDD's slowness and lack of fast approach options.

 

[Flawed]

You guys have GOT to get really good at powershielding virtually everything during camper matches. Against most campers, you are winning once you get them offstage ( provided you took the time to learn how powerful D3's edge guards are off stage), and losing when they either grab the ledge land on stage

 

[Makzutheamazing]

When i come across link who shoots arrows and boomerangs (and something similar) I down+A. That clanks with at least samus's missiles and links arrows AND it moves you forward! Pretty cool, huh?

 

[Cutie244]

See, what i do is when i'm at tournament and i see someone pick Duck Hunt against me, I will stare at them. For 1 full minute, i give them a unsettling, disturbing, and unblinking stare.

Thats when I say

"Why?"

Then we ban stages.


Real life mind games FTW

 

[Girthquake]

I usually just regrab the gordo or reflect it back with nair. It's really easy most of the times you hit it back with nair if not you just catch it. Back air is also a good option for reflecting and down tilt. Other than that the best way to deal with their projectiles period is lots of dashing and perfect shielding. Just practice the living crap out of perfect shielding

 

[Powda]

Listen, we don't want to admit it but if a player has a projectile AND understands their character and the game, DDD is going down.

 

[Putuk]

Listen, we don't want to admit it but if a player has a projectile AND understands their character and the game, DDD is going down.

WHAT KINDA ANTI-DEDEDE PROPOGANDA IS THIS???

 

[HeavyLobster]

Listen, we don't want to admit it but if a player has a projectile AND understands their character and the game, DDD is going down.

Any projectile? The elite camp games are nasty to deal with but your garden variety projectile won't be invalidating anyone, including the King.

 

[toadster101]

Fighting certain projectile users may seem like an uphill battle, but... yyyyeah, that's because it is. No matchup is unwinnable, though I think Villager and Sonic are pretty close. Power shield, short hop, anticipation, and patience. Those are the keys to victory. Some projectiles have a lot of end lag that can be taken advantage of, while others are nearly impossible to counter. First and foremost, don't use your Gordo haphazardly if you're battling, say, a character like Mario. That doesn't mean your side special is out of commission; in fact, I often score KOs with Gordo. You have to play intelligently, and above all else, you have to play patiently. You need to have full control over Gordo if you want to be a successful Dedede player. It's much easier to do this if you use a GCN controller, since there is an octagonal gate around the analog stick.

...but I'm so good that I don't need the advantage. Or maybe I just can't find the GCN controller adapter.

 

[AlextheTwin]

Fighting certain projectile users may seem like an uphill battle, but... yyyyeah, that's because it is. No matchup is unwinnable, though I think Villager and Sonic are pretty close.

I actually don't have as big of issues with Villager as I used to. Still a losing matchup but not as bad as duckhunt, samus, toon link or megaman in my opinion. Maybe I'm having less trouble with villager because he's my 2nd main and I know the character well, but unless the opponent is perfect with his slingshot it's very possible to get through the holes in his spam and take advantage of villager's ending lag on several of his moves. Lloyd rocket has a bit of ending lag, and his flower pot dash has a lot of it. And villager falls slowly and overall isn't near as speedy as other projectile based characters. Also villager's other big strength is edgeguarding/gimping and Dedede has great recovery to counter that.

Short hoping while tossing gordos work wonders, and you can even flip them over the tree with up gordo. If you can pick up patterns in villager's lloyd rocket spam you can take big advantage of the ending lag on it with short hop gordos directly to the face.

Shooting gordos from the air and from shorthops in general has been the key for me. As is perfect shielding and picking up reads. The only time I feel hopeless is if the opponent is an absolute master with short hop timing the slingshot. I don't even care about pocketed gordo much anymore, they're potentially more dangerous for him to throw out because if reflected back they KO villager super early, they often come out slow and it's easy for Dedede to reflect with nair. I reflected back a pocketed gordo on for glory a few days ago and it KO'ed villager at 23%!

Then again I'm not the most experienced smash player and have only played a couple really good villagers so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Ludiloco]

Nuh uh. Villager is an almost impossible matchup not because of projectile spam (though it is annoying).

Look where we have to recover 90% of the time, then look at Villager's forward smash. We may as well be Little Mac. You can try recovering high, but personally as a Villager main if I'm playing a Dedede I'm firing out a Lloid to distract you, then putting a sapling down and half-watering it waiting for you to up b onto the stage. If I force you to go low, bowling ball. Bye. If I force you to go high, I wait out the up b and chop my tree to hit you, or if you're too far I run at you with the axe and likely send you off stage again.

The armor on our up b does not protect us from the bowling ball. Villager wins in almost every conceivable edge guard situation against Dedede, and we struggle to do the same against his recovery. Also, throwing Gordos in the Villager MU is the #1 thing you need to avoid. Unless you are super close or they have the balloons on trying to recover it's not worth the 40% and huge knockback from a pocketed Gordo. Even if you're super close, a good Villager will just short hop nair it back at you as soon as they see the animation.

My advice against Villager: Have a secondary, because your only hope is going to be winning the neutral game and forcing him to recover. Which is not easy against a really good one.

 

[AlextheTwin]

Nuh uh. Villager is an almost impossible matchup not because of projectile spam (though it is annoying).

Look where we have to recover 90% of the time, then look at Villager's forward smash. We may as well be Little Mac. You can try recovering high, but personally as a Villager main if I'm playing a Dedede I'm firing out a Lloid to distract you, then putting a sapling down and half-watering it waiting for you to up b onto the stage. If I force you to go low, bowling ball. Bye. If I force you to go high, I wait out the up b and chop my tree to hit you, or if you're too far I run at you with the axe and likely send you off stage again.

May as well be little mac? Oh come on lol. Yeah of course you want to avoid up B'ing onto the edge because of the bowling ball. Still, worst case scenario you can up B onto the stage and give away some damage from a flower pot or maybe a bowling ball or turnips nstead of getting spiked below stage by a falling bowling ball. And often I've been able to recover high over the tree...if villager even is able to get the tree up in time. Covering myself with a gordo thrown downwards onto the edge for distraction still has worked well while I recover. Villager has average mobility and a lot of his moves have lag, you can find way around him because of that. If he shields or pockets the gordo it's usually enough time to get back on stage.

Again, I'm no expert smasher and maybe it is hopeless against that rare villager master but against most I've played I've been able to recover high. And often times they won't have time to plant and grow the tree before I'm back on stage.

The armor on our up b does not protect us from the bowling ball. Villager wins in almost every conceivable edge guard situation against Dedede, and we struggle to do the same against his recovery. Also, throwing Gordos in the Villager MU is the #1 thing you need to avoid. Unless you are super close or they have the balloons on trying to recover it's not worth the 40% and huge knockback from a pocketed Gordo. Even if you're super close, a good Villager will just short hop nair it back at you as soon as they see the animation.

My advice against Villager: Have a secondary, because your only hope is going to be winning the neutral game and forcing him to recover. Which is not easy against a really good one.

Well....a reflected pocketed gordo can KO villager at any percent like this video shows so I'm never that worried when he pockets one since it is just as dangerous to him as it is to me (potentially more dangerous because DDD is heavy and he's not). Just got to be cautious and ready to hit that nair to reflect it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjqKB1nIt9U.

Again I'm not saying villager isn't a terrible matchup for DDD. He is, but when I face a good one I feel like I have a chance unlike with other spammy characters. I've run into a few really awesome samus, duck hunt and megaman mains where I felt completely hopeless, but not yet a villager. Maybe I just haven't run into an amazing villager, that's a possibility.

But you can definitely take advantage of his average mobility, ending lag, terrible grab speed and terrible close range game. His slow falling speed and so-so mobility in particular.

Also the slingshot is the only projectile that's fast moving. Lloyd rocket and the tree are slow and have never scared me much when it comes to reflecting gordos back. The campy characters with multiple fast moving projectiles capable of reflecting back gordos scare me more. Villager to me is slower, laggier and overall just can't spam as hard or as fast as other campy types which is why I don't feel he's quite as bad to deal with.

But like I said I'm no expert, these are just my experiences mostly from playing with friends and online.

 

[Ludiloco]

Speaking from Villager's perspective, as soon as I knock you off stage I'm throwing out a Lloid to distract you and planting my tree. Even if you throw out a Gordo, the lloid will hit it and send it back or I'll just pocket it and keep working on getting my tree up. I'm telling you Villager has so many ways to trap D3's recovery that it may be his worst matchup. A heavy with poor mobility and a strong projectile is seriously like the ideal matchup for a Villager.

Pocketed Gordos are so dangerous because unlike ours Villager can fire it off any time with almost no startup. It's incredibly hard to see coming and as a Villager I'm just gonna hold onto it as long as I can to make you sweat. If you throw out a laggy move like fair, then I release it and you take huge damage and knockback.

You really do need to play a good Villager to see how hopeless it is then. I've just absolutely wrecked D3s with my Villager and they are usually able to keep up with my other characters.