Darkstalkers aren't Dead - Hsien-Ko (Lei-Lei) for Smash Support Thread

[Plague von Karma]

Well, there's no support thread, so I may as well come out as one of the 12 Darkstalkers fans left on earth. I'm not exactly active on SmashBoards but I thought I may as well drop by about it all.

You one of the 10 people who have heard of, and like Jiang-shis? Look no further.​

What's Darkstalkers?
Darkstalkers (Sometimes known as Vampire) is an old fighting game series from the 90s-2000s era. You may have heard of Morrigan or Felicia, characters who've become so popular they've transcended the series and appeared in numerous crossovers. Yeah, they're from this series. Darkstalkers was released in Arcades, and later on various consoles at the time. No Nintendo releases, though. Typical of most CPS2/3 games at the time, it was a smash hit, but after Darkstalkers 3 in 1997, it has never received any new games; though that game is a timeless classic. Darkstalkers Ressurection was the last we saw of the series in 2013, and due to the sales not meeting Capcom's high standards, it seems the series is on its last legs, despite them saying the series isn't dead. But since there's been no new games, the series is dead, right? Darkstalkers is...special.

Darkstalkers is frequently seen in compilation games. Like, super frequently. Despite this, Darkstalkers characters appear in crossovers all the time, from Project X Zone to Street Fighter V skins. Darkstalkers 3 still maintains a community to this day (VSav Discord), and is famed for its fast-paced gameplay and unique character design. It's surprisingly balanced for its time and has had events even at EVO, the most prestigious yearly fighting game event. While the community is definitely smaller than it used to be, I think that the fact it still exists after 20 years of no actual new game goes to show just how good the series is. This series legitimately one that just will not die, no matter how much Capcom tries. It's a community filled with hope...sometimes misled by Capcom saying the series isn't dead sometimes, but hey, we take what we can get. I want to see Darkstalkers get a SamSho-style revival, I really, really do.

Perhaps yet another one of these crossovers could stoke the flames again...and what better than Smash, the biggest crossover series of all time at this point?

Why Hsien-Ko?
Hsien-Ko is certainly an odd choice for Darkstalkers given Morrigan and Felicia exist, and I can't really make a strong argument for her without throwing them under the bus, accusing them of being "too sexy" or something. Even if this argument is to be made, Bayonetta shows the lengths the developers are willing to go to for the sake of age ratings. I'm sure at least Morrigan could be toned down enough. But, if you want to use Mai Shiranui's removal from SNK representation for "Morrigan is a succubus and is thus not family-friendly", and "Felicia is almost naked and is thus not family-friendly", Hsien-Ko kind of seems like the next in line. I really don't like these arguments, but I can't really gloss over it. I feel it's low and questionable.

I feel Hsien-Ko has a shot over Morrigan due to being more unique. There are few characters I can think of with a moveset like her. Morrigan is often considered a type of shoto. While she has an airdash and clear differences, her specials would be very similar and likely turn people off. Hsien-Ko, however, has a very different moveset, with moves like Senpuubu allowing for unique movement and combos that have not been seen in Smash before.

She's had appearances in a good few crossover games; Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3, Project X Zone, Pocket Fighter, Namco X Capcom, and more. She is among the most recognizable characters in the series as a result, even having her own mobile game (Lei-Lei's Magical Hammer). The fact that Hsien-Ko has appeared in so many games and even got her own is a testament to her popularity as a Darkstalkers character.

Hsien-Ko is a solid representative for retro fighting games. Many people of the FGC enjoy retro fighters, such as Terry's Garou: Mark of the Wolves, and such. You know of Street Fighter III's underground community, right? It's kind of like that. Darkstalkers 3 is probably one of the most popular retro fighters out there, with consistent online players even in Ressurection (which has been re-released on PS4) and FightCade. I think it would be good, solid representation if we go off the assumption the series has "died".

Smash does have a bit of a lack of women in the series, and I feel that Hsien-Ko could help even that out a bit. Sure, this is a cliche argument, but it can't be denied, right?

And, well, she's a bit of a selfish want on my end. This character was my first main in any fighting game, for Pete's sake. So, I won't deny my significant bias for the character. But hey, aren't we all

Arguments against Hsien-Ko
There are a number of solid arguments against Hsien-Ko for sure, so let's go through a bunch.

• "Too many Capcom reps"
  • This one is a solid argument. Mega Man, Ryu, Ken...there's definitely some special treatment for the company going on, and an additional one can definitely be seen as too much!
• "Too many fighting game reps"
  • I've been an advocate for FGC representation in Smash as a whole for a long time, and feel the opposite to this sentiment. I think there should be around 5 or 6, hey how about we throw in some Mortal Kombat, SamSho and AoF representation while we're at it! I can see why some would dislike FGC rep though, the communities often clash and Sakurai tends to implement these characters a bit weirdly, making them less accessible. I'm an optimist and like to think it would push the communities together and maybe some kinda harmony could be made! I know people rejoiced at the addition of Terry!
• "Darkstalkers is a dead series and thus carries no worth for Smash as it stands."
  • I've heard this for every Darkstalkers character, and I feel it's a misconception. Darkstalkers has had DLC and rep in so many fighting games that it would be impossible to really list it all. From this, I feel that there is definitely value in the series. Plus, given retro characters actively get added to Smash so often (King K. Rool being a notable recent addition), who's to say that Hsien-Ko or other Darkstalkers characters lack value?
• "Why not Morrigan?"
  • Morrigan is Mrs Darkstalkers for sure, and while I feel that she deserves the spot over Hsien-Ko, well, I just like the character. My thought process for this character is "If Morrigan and Felicia are problematic, then Hsien-Ko would be the next choice, right?". That's...all I can really say here. Even then, Demitri Maximoff could easily take the spot if they cut Midnight Bliss or something.

Once again, I know this character definitely isn't on many people's wish lists, but a girl can dream, right?

What would her moveset be like?
Being a fighting game character, it is very easy to find moves to put on Hsien-Ko. However, she has many, as Darkstalkers has light, medium and heavy inputs. However, she would be VERY unique given her kit is just unlike any other character in any fighting game ever. Let's look at Mizuumi Wiki's page for Hsien-Ko and take moves from there. I'll be using fighting game notation, so if you get confused, please refer to there!

Inherent abilities

• Special Cancelling: Given Hsien-Ko is an FG character, it is only natural that she will be able to special cancel. Given Darkstalkers is a Turbo game like Street Fighter in this respect, she will be more like the Shotos than Terry.
• Autoturn: FG character, she's gotta have that.
• Dark Force: A focal point of Darkstalkers gameplay, characters are able to spend meter to enter the Dark Force state in Darkstalkers 3. As time goes on, the meter decreases, so stockpiling it for a big nuke is possible. Hsien-Ko gains Super Armor during this like in Darkstalkers, but if the meter ends manually, she will be stuck in an animation for around a second or two. She would have specials and grabbing disabled during this.
• EX Specials: By burning meter, Hsien-Ko is able to get EX versions of her specials. These are more powerful than her normal specials, not much else to it.
• "Super Special Moves": Hate this name, but hey. Hsien-Ko would be able to spend meter to also execute supers. These include Chireitou, Tenraiha (we like to call this Anvil) and Chuukadan.
• Pursuit: If a character is hit to the ground, a Down Smash input can make Hsien-Ko jump on the opponent and use her Pursuit attack, allowing for a guaranteed follow-up.

In terms of movement, Hsien-Ko would have very slow walk speed, an initial dash where she disappears, before maybe transitioning to what is usually her airdash for grounded movement. Her backward initial dash would translate very well to Smash due to the existence of Pivot Cancelling. I'm going with a Terry-style kit in that there isn't light, medium or heavy attacks: just standard Smash. I feel this would make it easier to digest this "sample" moveset and go from there in speculating on what the character could be like!

Spoiler: Moveset

Hsien-Ko would be a combo-based character with large hitboxes. A silly combination, but yeah.
Normals

• Jab
  • I feel we could go with LP -> MP -> HP here, typical kind of thing you'd have right?
  • A prox version of this could use n.LP -> n.HP.
• FTilt
  • 6MP for sure.
  • Hits high up, and has a long-lasting hitbox.
  • We could make the hitbox follow the ball unlike in DS3 too, couldn't we?
• UTilt
  • MK / n.MK, generally they're the same move.
  • Could have foot intangibility.
• DTilt
  • c.MP
  • This would be one of the widest-ranged DTilts in the game, hitting surprisingly high and punishing jump-ins. Maybe a bit busted, so maybe c.LK?
• FSmash
  • HK
  • Essentially just Ken FSmash, only with a slightly different animation since she kinda twirls on an arm?
• USmash
  • 6HP
  • Essentially just a giant hitbox, but with high lag.
  • Would be a silly anti-air.
  • Given it's a 6, this could also be FSmash.
• DSmash
  • c.HP
  • Crawling across the floor for a multihit sounds generally quite interesting, so I like the idea of it.

Aerials

• NAir
  • j.HP
  • A multihit aerial that could be used for dragdown combos
• FAir
  • j.MP
  • A pretty notorious move, considered to be one of her best tools in the game. In Smash though, it's your typical "hit nair magic happens" move.
• BAir
  • Essentially recreating j.MK as a BAir.
• UAir
  • Would have to be a unique move. Perhaps a sweeping attack upwards with the arms?
• DAir
  • j.HK
  • Generic spike.
• ZAir
  • An air grab that has Hsien-Ko drag the opponent to the ground. Like Ganoncide, I feel this should be something you can mash out of. If it misses, it should have high lag.

Grab Stuff

• Standing Grab
  • Hsien-Ko's arms reach forward like in Houtengeki.
• Dash Grab
  • Standing Grab but...laggier, I guess?
• Pivot Grab
  • Same thing but with a lunge behind?
• Pummel
  • Possibly knife stabs?
• Forward Throw
  • Something you would have to create yourself. Let's say she shoulder bashes the opponent forward!
• Back Throw
  • Something you'd probably have to create as well.
• Up Throw
  • Her P Throw where opponents are chucked high up.
• Down Throw
  • Execution of Houtengeki. Multihit, would be like Jr DThrow essentially.

Specials

• NSpecial
  • Ankihou ("Stuff Fu")
  • ↓ ⬊ → + A/B
  • Hsien-Ko tosses out items in a set order. However, at specific points, she can toss stun items which put the opponent into a weakened shieldbreak state, allowing for followups.
  • EX Version would have Hsien-Ko toss out 3 iron balls in sequence for large damage.
• SSpecial
  • Henkyouki ("Gong")
  • ↓⬋← + A/B
  • Functions as a reflector that stalls recovery, and has a small sound wave projectile.
  • For the EX Version, the sound wave would be a multihit projectile allowing for followups.
• USpecial
  • Senpuubu ("Pendulum Swing")
  • →↓⬊ + A/B
  • Hsien-Ko enters a swinging motion that functions as a multihit. This can be cancelled with aerial attacks. Unlike in Darkstalkers, there would need to be more upward drift for this to function as recovery.
  • EX Version has more hits and knockback.
• DSpecial
  • Dark Force
  • No special input, as Hsien-Ko only has 3 specials due to Houtengeki being a throw, making the implementation of this easier.
  • This gives an idea on how it lasts for Hsien-Ko in Darkstalkers 3.

Supers

• Chireitou
  • ←⬋↓⬊ + A/B
  • Blades spawn from the ground to inflict a multihit kind of damage, sending the opponent away.
• Chuukadan
  • ←⬋↓⬊ + A/B, could change to the Buster Wolf input, ↓⬊→ ↓⬊→ + A/B, or have it be the first time specials are influenced by whether you press A or B.
• Tenraiha
  • ↓⬋← + A/B
  • I'm using the UMvC3 input here as I feel it's legitimately impossible to add Raging Demon inputs to Smash.
  • Tenraiha is the typical combo-ender for Hsien-Ko's attacks in Darkstalkers, so this should be the focus of her kit.

Videos
If you want to get to know Darkstalkers and Hsien-Ko, these videos should help!

Spoiler: Videos

To Conclude
I will not deny my bias for this character, and that this ain't an easy character to support due to that. I've used this character in Darkstalkers for around...16-17 years now. Started in October 2003 when I was just a kid with my dad who introduced me to fighting games. He played Lord Raptor, but he's long gone now. Rather than turn me off from fighting games and Darkstalkers, that tragic event has only strengthened my love for the genre. But anyway, you're not here for that, so moving on!

I think Hsien-Ko would wind up being one of those "ah yeah, the two big 'uns are a no-no, so we settle for this" kind of character, unfortunately. But, I think it's cool anyway. If Darkstalkers ever got Smash rep, I'm sure that Sakurai would do an amazing job putting whoever it is into the game. And I would main whoever it is instantly. But that's enough from me, feel free to roast me for such a left-field choice

 

[toonito]

i guess i'm 2 of 12 darkstalkers fans here

supports

 

[Kirbeh]

Probably my favorite DS character overall and my main in Night Warriors. Support.

Another point to add (though probably negligible to most) is that while Morrigan is the go to DS crossover character they haven't gone for her every single time. Capcom Fighting Jam, which is notably a Capcom only crossover game, features multiple DS characters but Morrigan is oddly not among them. (She is still a stage cameo though.)

This was like the one time where they went "Oh yeah, technically Dimitri was the og protagonist right?" Felicia does show up here as well though so there's that.

Point being though, that while Morrigan is the main poster girl, they do go for other characters from time to time and Hsien Ko is among the more popular characters being #3 among the girls iirc, hence her inclusion in things like Gem Fighter and MvC3.

If DS somehow ever got into Smash I still think they'd go for Morrigan first (BIG if there.) That said I'm sure Hsien Ko would still be included in some way as well.

In a world where they say screw it and include a ton of Capcom characters to make a technical CvN inside Smash Bros. however, I would love to see a handful of DS characters comprised of the main ladies and Dimitri.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

While not my number one choice (that'd be Felicia, who would NEVER get in due to the obvious), I'd be willing to support Hsien-Ko, who is just adorable and has one of the best themes in fighting games.

 

[Pizza Robo]

I support Hsein Ko for Super Smash Bros Ultimate because I'm a big fan of Darkstalkers Sign Me Up :D

 

[Guybrush20X6]

As the person with the cosplaying Gardevoir avatar, I support!

 

[Geno Boost]

i support!!!
she got me interested the franchise as a whole has a very interesting concept it has a very dark tune but yet its very colorful and so much creativity in terms of fighting moves.
i never even played darkstalker or any game that had some darkstalker content yet however what i can tell you is that Hsein-ko is the only character when i was a kid and saw it was appealing to me compared to all other darkstalker characters and its likely the concept and the design of the character itself that i have never seen this type before before and very charming too and hard to forget.
Compared to Morrigan or Felicia in terms of business choice the appeal of them wouldnt include the children while Hsien-ko will probably pass it i am not turning a blind eye on since the only reason why we got her was because of being the number one the ballout and even with that she had to cover herself more.
even though darkstalker video games are dead Hsein-ko is still very memorable its similar situation to Geno he is not dying out of people's memory because of how appealing the character is even before me playing SMRPG.
also i want vs Hsein-ko it will be legendary 2 long armed chinese women fighting each other.
also here is something very interesting i want to talk about i think her trailer NEEDS to have in it both of them are from the 18th century she was born in 1730 while he was born in 1773 not only that but he hunts vampires she is a mix vampire so its very fitting to feature him in the trailer as if it was during his timeline.
oh and lets not forget Mei-Ling can be her alt skin so basically we end up having 2 Darkstalkers character in the game instead of one.
her Onimusha Soul design as alt skin would be great too! that game was the biggest crossover for capcom's female characters

anyway thats all what i wanted to say good luck darkstalkers fans!